Leonard Bernstein faces his longtime rival in a new play

For much of the 20th century, the world of classical conducting was dominated by two figures: Herbert von Karajan and Leonard Bernstein, who fiercely competed with each other throughout their prolific and illustrious careers. 

The first was Austrian, a stickler for exactitude who was, for a time, a member of the Nazi Party. The second was an American Jew known for his passion and charisma, who celebrated his Jewish heritage in works like “Dybbuk,” “Jeremiah,” and “Kaddish.” 

The rivalry between these two men is the subject of “Last Call,” a new off-Broadway play by American writer Peter Danish, running through May 4 at New World Stages. 

“Last Call” finds these two musical legends in 1988, as they’re nearing the end of their lives (Karajan died in 1989; Bernstein in 1990). The play is based on a real-life run-in between Karajan and Bernstein that took place in the Blue Bar of the Hotel Sacher in Vienna. Danish took that meeting and expanded upon it, using research to imagine a longer conversation between the two musicians.

Over the course of the play, they peel back the layers of their public personas to delve into a lifetime of simmering resentments: They cover music, debating their differing approaches to conducting, the merits of creating music versus interpreting it (Bernstein was also a composer, whereas Karajan only conducted), and Karajan’s distaste for Bernstein’s work in musical theater. And they argue about politics, unpacking Karajan’s infamous involvement with the Nazis, and the way it affected his reputation both during and after the war. 

Under the direction of German director Gil Mehmert, the entire 90-minute play takes place in the bar, save for some creative set-work that follows Karajan and Bernstein to the bathroom. (As the characters point out, they do drink throughout the entire play: whiskey for Bernstein, and tea for Karajan.)

In an unusual choice, Mehmert has cast women in the two lead roles. Karajan is played by the German Lucca Züchner, and Bernstein by Helen Schneider, an American-born actress based in Germany who was raised in a Jewish family but no longer practices. Both are frequent Mehmert collaborators. Rounding out the cast is Victor Petersen in the role of Michael, a star-struck waiter who breaks up the conductors’ fervent discussion with moments of levity. 

The New York Jewish Week talked with Mehmert, 60, and Schenider, 72, shortly after “Last Call” opened to hear about bringing Bernstein to life onstage, and how the play grapples with themes of art, politics and individual responsibility. 

This interview has been lightly edited for length and clarity. 

What made you both want to work on this play? 

Helen Schneider: Bernstein was very much a part of my young life. I feel like I grew up with him as an incredible figure in music and entertainment. I was terrified but thrilled to have the opportunity to find out more about this person who was so important in my formative years as a performer. It was also the themes that are handled in this piece: interpretation — meaning how far can you go artistically, how close do you need to stay to a composer’s original intention — and politics. Like it is so often said, in order to invite people to hear what you really want to say, it’s best to entertain them. And I think Peter Danish strikes that balance in the play. It’s full of humor, but manages to state a few interesting points of view. And to state them from both sides. 

Gil Mehmert: I was immediately interested in doing a play where Karajan and Bernstein meet. They are both, for me, very interesting persons and also idols of my youth. They stand for two different ways to look at the arts, at music. And they stand for two different countries: Germany — or Austria — and America. It’s not just about two guys in the last century. It’s also a discussion between yin and yang, coming together and starting to understand the other side. 

Much of the play is centered around Jewish protests that took place in 1955, when Karajan and the Berlin Philharmonic Orchestra came to New York to play at Carnegie Hall. The play is set in Vienna, but it’s being performed just a short distance from where those protests took place. Why did you want to premiere “Last Call” in New York? 

GM: This is the place of Bernstein. It’s placed in Vienna, but Bernstein is the host of the evening. He’s the guy who decides to stay and change his relationship to Karajan. Bernstein, in his way of being open-minded to everybody, is asking Karajan the questions. It’s his goal to find out what happened. I’m happy that an American playwright wrote it, because as a German, I would have been harder on Karajan. It’s interesting that the play gives Karajan the possibility to explain himself. 

HS: The Carnegie Hall episode was key to this “problem zone” that remained between Bernstein and Karajan for their entire lives — both of them kind of ignoring it, but it would always rise to the surface again. And at this moment, in the sunset of their lives and careers, Bernstein takes the leap to decide to try to explore their problems with each other. It’s an amazing moment for both of them. 

Gil, I know that one of the reasons you cast women in these roles was to let Karajan’s and Bernstein’s personalities speak more than their appearances. This seems especially apt following the controversy surrounding Bradley Cooper’s prosthetic nose when he portrayed Bernstein in the movie “Maestro.” Can you explain your decision? 

GM: Because it’s theater, I thought we could go in a different direction than a film can. I was really impressed by Bradley Cooper, and was shocked by the pushback. I thought, let’s go away from this focus on the surface of Bernstein. I wanted to concentrate on their souls as artists, their hearts, their thoughts. And it was really important to me that the actors aren’t vain, and are really able to go into their characters, how they conducted, how they moved. Especially because they are women, I thought they would have to change more to create these characters. Perhaps it’s better to start from a point far away, instead of being close to these guys. 

In “Last Call,” Bernstein speaks often about being Jewish, both with humor and with sincerity. What does it mean for a predominantly non-Jewish artistic team to tell such a Jewish story? 

GM: I’ve always adored the Jewish world and Jewish artists. I do a lot of musicals and, of course, like Bernstein says in the play, they’re full of Jewish culture. In German history, our entertainment culture was so great until the 1930s, when the Nazis came and killed this fantastic world of great humor. I’m a funny German. I often realize when directing in Germany, people have no sense of humor. Jewish humor is for me a role model. It’s something I totally relate to. 

There’s a conflict in the play between the fact that Karajan was, as he says, “living under the shadow of Hitler” during the war, while Bernstein was safely at home in the U.S. What do you hope American audiences take away from hearing about that dichotomy of experiences? 

GM: I think Karajan was really kind of desperate, because he thought he couldn’t change his situation. Of course, Bernstein says to him that he was a symbol. I think most Germans still feel so ashamed about what happened. My father was of the same generation, he was a soldier in the Second World War, though not active in any political behavior. It’s really difficult to judge, if you’re not in that position. Perhaps it’s not my right to say it, but what’s happening now in America, who’s standing up? Who’s saying something? This is the same as how it started in Germany 100 years ago. The next step happens, and then the next and the next, until people are used to it. It’s a very, very sad comparison to what’s happening now. 

HS: I think we’re in a crisis modus. And being involved in this play, it’s been a wake-up call for me as an artist. When I came here, I thought I would keep my mouth shut, do my work, and go home to Germany. I don’t feel that way anymore. I’ve taken the play to heart. I have felt that when I am offered an opportunity to speak up about the outrageous and fast move America is making to being an authoritarian nation, and my disappointment in the resistance that’s happened here — that it isn’t strong enough and it isn’t loud enough — it is really a time to open your mouth and say something about it. 

We’re living in an age of such intense divisiveness, where people are less willing than ever to hear perspectives that they don’t agree with. But the play shows that there are two sides to every story, and that things are often more complicated than they seem. What have you learned from “Last Call” about the importance of discourse and empathy? 

GM: I think it’s really important that people talk to each other, like Bernstein and Karajan do. Sometimes they’re also shouting and fighting, but at the end, they find they are not so far away from each other. This play shows, listen to each other. There is no black and white in the world. 

HS: Amen. 

“Last Call” is at New World Stages (340 West 50th St.) through May 4. Get tickets, from $59, here.