James Hovland http://jta.org/user/profile/63966 en-us rcsillag@jta.org Copyright 2009 2009-11-20T;16:30:00-05:00 "BIRTHRIGHT ISRAEL" The title of the banner just to the right of this comment section, explains more about the nature of this conflict than the article itself, or any of the articles mentioned in it. A Jewish minority had been in the land for thousands of years, but a Jewish majority had not. The real problems started with a flood of Jewish immigration that was carried out under the British occupation. Had the British not promised the Palestinian's current homeland to the Jews for the declared purpose of re-establishing their ancient homeland, thus creating the "Jewish" state, we wouldn't have this problem today. As it is, the Jewish majority can only be maintained as long as the displaced Palestinian's 'right of return' is denied. Rejecting this 'right of return' in order to preserve a democratic majority for the Jews should be seen as a clear attempt to both legitimize and finalize the act of ethnic cleansing. That's not Democracy. Immediately after the fall of the Ottoman empire, the entire mandate of Palestine was under the threat of becoming a "Jewish" state. Rejection was natural. WWI placed the future of Palestine into the hands of the British occupation. The British then promised that land away like it was a prize to be handed out for those who helped in the war effort. Back then, this was all fairly normal, and without the ease of global communication we have today, acceptable meant something entirely different. Today, the history doesn't look so good, and brings Israel's "right" to exist into serious question. This is the angle I think should be pursued if Israel remains in contempt over the settlement issue, or continues to blame Palestine rather than admitting the injustice that has been forced onto the Palestinians through back to back occupations. Putting Britain in the spotlight might be more effective than keeping all the attention on Israel. It's time to move forward. 2009-11-20T;16:30:00-05:00 The issue with Iran is about Palestine, not enrichment. Israel wants America to hold Iran back while they expand their borders. It's not happening anymore. Iran is only a threat to Israel because Israel is a threat to Palestine. Recognize Palestine, and the injustice you have done to them, and we can move forward. Iran isn't the problem, Israel's treatment of the Palestinian "question" is. 2009-11-20T;16:30:00-05:00 Don't forget the Zionist and right-wing propaganda that demonized the Palestinians, Arabs, and Muslims. The negative propaganda on both sides needs to stop. Is Israel up to that? Can the media and our politicians everywhere address the problem openly? Or are we still trying to pretend it doesn't exist? "Demonizing the enemy" causes prejudice, hate and racism. Yes? I get material advertisements for material intended for this purpose in my spam box from sites like JPost, NewsMax, etc... The comments made by Will Edwards directed at Mussa Ailwat and Muslims everywhere, is a good example of the resulting prejudice, racism, and hate being propagated in the western media. Are people like Will Edwards moving us toward, or away from peace? Can you acknowledge the connection? If the propaganda can be discussed openly and exposed for the threat to peace that it is, peace can actually be achieved. 2009-11-20T;16:30:00-05:00 Cheryl Mavrikos, Wealthy Zionists have been funding mass aliyah for over 100 years. None of the numbers you site can be accurately attributed anything without first accounting for accurate aliyah figures. Also how many Jews have made aliyah out of unwarranted fear created by alarmist calls for aliyah? For example: http://www.shuva.net/ Your number don't add up. 2009-11-20T;16:30:00-05:00 Cheryl Mavrikos, Israel has recognized borders. All settlements outside of those borders, including East Jerusalem, are illegal. Your leaders have known this all along, and some have even spoken honestly about it. The attempted land grabs, also known as "facts on the ground", are not assets that Israel gets to keep, they are evidence of Israel's contempt for international law. Appeasement on an issue of this nature would set a very dangerous precedent. 2009-11-20T;16:30:00-05:00 EU WEI CHOI, I voted for change. Very happy with it too. Thanks for asking. Obama 2012, I voted for him once already, this time I'm campaigning. 2009-11-20T;16:30:00-05:00 Pressure is being applied where it's needed. Palestine just happens to be moving forward faster, and with far less resistance than Israel. Across the Middle East and beyond, our nation's leaders have been standing up en mass and calling for peace, reconciliation, and calling upon their peers to join them. Jewish groups around the world, including the majority of American Jews, are adding their voice, standing up for both Israel and Palestine. On Friday, July 24 2009, after giving the PA a green light for 1967 borders, Hamas, moving forward in leaps and bounds, announced a strategic shift from rockets to Public Relations. Welcome to the information era. Peace goes forward as planned. The imbalance of pressure being applied is due to the fact that Palestine is moving forward without it, while at the same time Israel remains in contempt, and their settlers burn down Palestinian olive trees and rampage through the occupied territories. The pressure is on, and it's not just Obama. Here on the net, our "we" is a global community, unlike anything history has ever witnessed. It's time for peace, and "we" are not backing down. 2009-11-20T;16:30:00-05:00 What these settlers, and their supporters like Saul and Victor fail to understand is that they are essentially trading Tel Aviv and Haifa for bits and pieces of Samaria. Failing to support and implement a viable "two state solution" will result in the "one state solution". One state with an Arab majority. I bet they call it Palestine. So much for the dream of having a "Jewish state". 2009-11-20T;16:30:00-05:00 Well Shaul, the world has certainly changed. The use of war planes against peace activist is just not acceptable in this day and age. I think your leaders understand that. You should have them explain it to you. Thanks for presenting such a clear image of the extremist views. However, when making statements like this, you should be clear that your views are yours alone, and do not represent the views of the Jewish people. Antisemitism is a real problem in the world, and it would not be good for people to think that all Jews think like you. 2009-11-20T;16:30:00-05:00 If this had been Palestinians attacking a Jewish book store... 2009-11-20T;16:30:00-05:00 Kerry Winn, I do read the Palestinian media. I also read the Israeli media, follow the entire conflict and research all of the history. Do you? Shall we start with the genocide in Canaan, or is that too far back for you? Or maybe a different aspect, like the contributions of Edward Bernays and Walter Lippman. Then we can talk about your prejudice views and how they were shaped. 2009-11-20T;16:30:00-05:00 Will Edwards, Do you honestly believe that all Arabs are terrorists? Have you ever heard of the propaganda term "demonizing the enemy"? The term describes the act of manipulating public opinion through fabricated or 'worse-case', stereo types. Quality propaganda employs an extensive knowledge of psychology, exploiting emotional triggers to cause a desired reaction absent of rational thought. To create support for a war, and overcome a soldiers natural resistance to killing another human, the war must be portrayed as "just" and "necessary". Demonizing the "enemy" is used to overcome the requirement of both "just" and "necessary", by portraying the "enemy" as dangerous, unstable, impossible to reason with, etc. The effects on the public can be seen in comment like this: "Great… just what we need another 1350 terrorist Arabs." When a soldier goes into battle prepared to kill, ready to kill, because his enemy is not human, because his enemy has been demonized, he can kill with no remorse, no mercy, and no humanity, because his enemy is not human. When the propaganda wears off, and these soldiers see the people they killed as human, it destroys their mind, there soul, and far too often, it actually kills them. Suicide rates among our veterans are unacceptable and the psychological consequences of demonizing the "enemy" are at fault. It's time look a little closer at what is going on in the information war. 2009-11-20T;16:30:00-05:00 Welcome to America. Inscribed on our statue of Liberty it reads: "Give me your tired, your poor, Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free, The wretched refuse of your teeming shore. Send these, the homeless, tempest-tossed to me, I lift my lamp beside the golden door!" In these words is the spirit of America the world fell in love with. The spirit is still alive, and will prevail again. 2009-11-20T;16:30:00-05:00 Natural growth is something that occurs within your borders not outside of them. There is no "Greater Israel". All settlements outside of Israel's recognized borders are illegal. Could you imagine America building settlements in Canada or Mexico against their governments will? Could we call that "natural growth"? All US aid should be suspended until all settlements are dismantled. And we must always remember to use the word "ALL", when dealing with Israel. Israel and the international community need to realize that recognition of Palestine, including borders, does not require Israel approval. I recognize Palestine withing the proposed 1948 partition borders. Any Israeli settlements built in Palestine are illegal. 2009-11-20T;16:30:00-05:00 Bush had no legal right to make such an agreement. For Israel's information... Natural growth is something that occurs within your own borders, not outside of them. The West Bank is not part of Israel. There is no legal standing for, or recognition of, a "Greater Israel". All Israeli settlements outside of Israel's recognized borders are illegal. Agreements made by the Bush administration regarding settlement expansion are more likely to result in criminal charges than to be adopted by the Obama administration. Testimonies are welcome. 2009-11-20T;16:30:00-05:00 The Zionists need to get over it. We are not their puppets, and do not support their ideology. Peace goes forward as planned. 2009-11-20T;16:30:00-05:00 This issue does need to be put into perspective. I'll use California as an example, because that's where I am. Adapt this perspective to your own area. What if Britain had agreed to give half of California to the Zionists for them to establish a "Jewish State"? Take note that prior to UN involvement the Zionist's stated goal included all of California plus Nevada. Would Californians have agreed to the UN partitioning their land even if Nevada got to keep theirs? What if we didn't and the Zionists took it by force anyway? What if when we resisted we were bombed by an advanced military, and then labeled as "terrorists" for fighting back? What if the world sat back and just let it happen? The high mountain desert where I am would be our occupied West Bank, and LA our war torn Gaza strip. How would you explain sanctions and occupation to your kids? What if a nation like America funded and supported it? How do you explain that? What about the displaced people from San Fransisco, Sacramento, etc, do they ever get to go home? Who would your kids blame for all of the undue hardships in their lives? I wish for the best for all the Jewish people, but not at someone else's expense. Israel's identity as a "Jewish State" can not take priority over justice. It's time for the world to stand up for Palestine, and justice, including the 'Right of Return'. Peace comes first, it is the only possible path, the rhetoric has to end and the correct conditions created. To move forward, peace and security for all the people is the only correct answer. It's time to set things straight, and make sure the whole situation is finally put into perspective. It's time for peace, and we're not backing down. 2009-11-20T;16:30:00-05:00 Peace goes forward as planned. Mr. Abrams can go home now, the neocon mentality is no longer welcome. In case you missed it, America voted for change. The goal is peace and justice, and Israel's identity as a "Jewish State" can not take priority over either. Lets be clear about where we are and where we're going. Here on the net, our "we" is a global community, and we know how to communicate. The Propaganda was very powerful back when TV was high tech, but those days are long gone. The people are more knowledgeable now than at any point in history, we putting that power to good use, and many of our "lessons of history" no longer apply.The Iranian "nuclear issue" is about Israel and Palestine, not enrichment. It's about occupation, the expanding settlements, blockades, sanctions, and 11,000 POWs. The focus on enrichment is a distraction intended to portray Israel as a victim rather than the aggressor. It's time to "reset the equation". It's time for peace, and we are not backing down. 2009-11-20T;16:30:00-05:00 For most of this year Israel has been advocating an attack on Iran. As a peace activist, I talk with people all over the world and people all over the world welcome the idea, and hope for peace, except for one small sliver of land on the Mediterranean. Just mention peace around the pro-Israel crowd and you will be verbally attacked, accused of wanting Israel's destruction, accused of supporting terrorism, accused of being anti-semitic, all for advocating peace. We hear all about the dangers of Iran, and how everyone hates the Jews. I'm starting to get the distinct impression that the fear and hate in Israel, poses a very serious threat to Iran, and quite possibly to the rest of the world if Israel is not appeased. Make all the excuses you want. Israel is threatening Iran, and everyone can see it. 2009-11-20T;16:30:00-05:00 Thank you Ron. This was and excellent article that exposes one of the major obstacles we face in achieving our shared goals. Kudos to J-Street and JTA. Being neither Jewish, nor Palestinian, I side with both in the pursuit of peace. I believe that with the tools we have today, namely the internet providing global communication and the greatest freedom of information ever known to man, the time has come for society to make a conscious intelligent decision to achieve our greatest goal. World Peace. 2009-11-20T;16:30:00-05:00