Gary Katz http://jta.org/user/profile/30347 en-us marcus@infolink.com.br Copyright 2009 2009-11-22T;22:02:00-05:00 Grossman's point about Israel having all that superior weaponry forgets that Israel is severely limited in how much it can use that weaponry. Israel gets criticized more for inflicting civilian casualties during war than any nation on Earth ever has. I challenge any reader to name any other country that has ever been scrutinized like that, ever. Unfortunately, the more Israel gets bashed, the less incentive the Palestinians have to attain a normal (non-terrorist) society and government. If the world (especially other Arabs and Muslims) stopped coddling the Palestinians, you'd see how fast we'd have a permanent peace. 2009-11-22T;22:02:00-05:00 Perhaps Ms. Balzer should've spent time in a Sderot bomb shelter. 2009-11-22T;22:02:00-05:00 I wonder if Richard Goldstone will approach matters differently in the future, now that he realizes he was played for a sucker by the U.N.H.R.C., which really should stand for "Unified Neanderthal Human Rights Criminals" (For that matter, Hamas probably stands for "Homicidal Anarchist Muslims Abandoning Sanity."). 2009-11-22T;22:02:00-05:00 Stuart, I could say there are two types of people: those who pigeonhole everyone into categories and those who don't. But that would be very ironic of me. 2009-11-22T;22:02:00-05:00 Walid, The only people who cheapen the Holocaust are the deniers like Ahmadinejad. If anything, much of the rest of world didn't learn enough about it, given the genocides that have taken place since: Rawanda, Darfur, etc. I understand your point about a nuclear arms race in the Middle East, but I disagree. Israel is a tiny country surrounded by enemies and potential enemies. Theoretically, the Arabs could destroy Israel with enough conventional weapons, mainly missiles. The fanatics who rule Iran must understand that the price of attacking Israel is too high, even for them and the low value they place on the lives of their own civilians. If Israel forsakes its (suspected) nukes, it increases the chances of an all-out attack: Hamas, Hezbollah and Syria simultaneously, all supported by Iran. Walid, you also overlook the fact that the Arabs don't have to fear Israel attacking them for pure conquest. They only need nukes if they want to destroy Israel. If they leave Israel alone, Israel will happily leave them alone. I would add that, even if Israel and the Arabs renounced nukes, I wouldn't trust half those Arab/Persian governments as far as I could spit. The more repressive and fanatic the government, the more they lie. This has been true for thousands of years, and never more true today. 2009-11-22T;22:02:00-05:00 Ross, as the Yom Kippur War demonstrated, Israel must be constantly vigilant. If they don't make themselves invincible, they might end up invisible. Having said that, one would think that given their numerous defeats, the Muslims would have an inkling that, just maybe, Allah is not on their side. 2009-11-22T;22:02:00-05:00 David, you're partially correct. Cohen wants Israel to sign the non-proliferation treaty, so Iran and Arab states can stop whining about a double standard. However, there is strategic value in Israel keeping its nuke status in the dark. Iran might attack Israel if it knew Israel had, say, 10 nukes, or they might have their proxy, Hezbollah, do so. But Iran doesn't know if Israel has 10 or 100 or 500 nukes, so the mullahs become more hesitant in their fanaticism. For all we know, Israel doesn't have any nukes! The "never again" mentality is not outdated, as recent genocides have shown. The Tutsis of Rawanda will testify that our present civilization is perfectly capable of mass slaughter. "Never again" means, in part, "Various peoples may kill off each other, but we are done going like lambs to the slaughterhouse. If you try it again against us, many more of you will die than us. So think it over." Thus, the threat of a retaliating nuclear Israel folds perfectly and logically into its "never again" mentality. 2009-11-22T;22:02:00-05:00 Blackie, It's because our arguments don't gain power through name-calling; they lose power. It's somewhat analogous to a stand-up comedian who gets laughs with swearing and vulgarity, versus a comedian who gets laughs without any of that. The latter might be more challenging, but, in the long run, you might appreciate the clean comedian's creativity more. 2009-11-22T;22:02:00-05:00 I don't think the problem is that Arabs don't want Jews living amongst them. I think the problem is Arabs can't stand Jews ruling "sacred Muslim land." Muslim hegemony is very important to the Muslim psyche. Wherever they ruled over Jews, their conditions for tolerating the Jewish presence included telling little rules like a synagogue must be lower in height than a mosque. Little reminders of Muslim superiority (or Jewish subservience). Therefore, little Israel is like a grain of sand stuck in their eye. Tiny but painful. Israel should offer to abandon its settlements only after all the Christians who were forced out of southern Lebanon get to return to their homes. Or after the Shiites and Sunnis who were ethnically cleansed from their respective neighborhoods in Iraq get to return home. You get the idea. 2009-11-22T;22:02:00-05:00 Name-calling aside, when I watched the 10 minute film clip, I noticed: 1. The Palestinians are shooting at the soldiers while other Palestinians are darting in front of them. So the soldiers can only fire back through the stone throwers in order to hit the gunmen. This is an unintended or subconscious indictment of Hamas, which hides behind civilians. Undoubtedly, any Palestinian who gets hit from behind by his own people will be listed as a casualty of Israeli brutality. 2. After the boy is shot and the battle moves on, the boy's mother comes outside to cry over his body and curse the soldiers. This of course raises questions such as, why didn't she keep her young boy inside the house while there is a gun battle on her block? Why did she not try to drag him inside even during the battle? When you teach your kids to hate and teach them martyrdom, you should not be surprised when one of them gets killed. Let's also remember that these parents voted a terrorist organization into power in Gaza. Real productive. 3. The film clip shows the mother crying over her son. I'm waiting for the reaction shot of the mother of the soldier who got shot during the same battle. 2009-11-22T;22:02:00-05:00 A society can be abnormal yet contain many normal people who are stuck within. Not every German was a Nazi and not every Palestinian is a terrorist. The trick is getting the right ones in power. Not easy. 2009-11-22T;22:02:00-05:00 If she lived in a normal society which wasn't governed by a terrorist government, she could've enjoyed a normal wedding. Shame. 2009-11-22T;22:02:00-05:00 Once a Palestinian state is established, I doubt even Christian Arabs will be left alone, much less Jewish settlers. I wouldn't be so cynical if it weren't for all the violence against Christians in Iraq and Lebanon. 2009-11-22T;22:02:00-05:00 Miraculously, there's no shortage of weapons in Gaza. I guess they've got their priorities. 2009-11-22T;22:02:00-05:00 Well, David L., I hear you, man, but it's not just the Muslims. Most of the anti-Israel specialists point to everything Zionists have ever done wrong, while conveniently ignoring most of the bad stuff that was done to the Zionists. More general Jew-haters focus on rumor, innuendo, and lies, mixed with the occasional fact, while turning a blind eye to all the oppression of Jews throughout history. They hear what they want to hear, basically. 2009-11-22T;22:02:00-05:00 The comments were mostly general. We all agree that Islam needs LOTS of liberalization. I was glad that Ali Gomaa condemned terrorism, including 9-11 (unlike those Palestinians who celebrated it). Why, he gets points merely for not trying to blame 9-11 on the Mossad! Still, I'd be curious if his pronouncements in Arabic are as liberal. 2009-11-22T;22:02:00-05:00 I don't know that the UN wanted the Jews liquidated, but that doesn't mean they would've cared much, either. I recall how UN "peace keepers" meekly left the Sinai when Nasser demanded, prior to the 6 Day War, and how the UN demanded peace when Israel was kicking Arab ass. Come to think of it, at what point are the Arabs/Muslims going to realize that, given the results of all their wars against Israel, that perhaps Allah is not on their side? This is actually a rhetorical question, since fanatics never learn. 2009-11-22T;22:02:00-05:00 Does anyone see the irony when Arabs state, "Israel is racist for occupying sacred Muslim land." 2009-11-22T;22:02:00-05:00 I thought their activists' handbook was "Mein Kampf." 2009-11-22T;22:02:00-05:00 I agree as far as mixing children in with adult prisoners, but what would you suggest where the child is caught wearing a suicide belt? A child throwing a firebomb at a soldier is not too different than an adult doing so. Both are very dangerous, except the adult can throw it farther and with more accuracy. Juvenile detention facilities are preferable to prisons. While incarcerated, it is important to deprogram them from their robotic hatred. Rehabilitation over punishment, yes. Children are probably more capable of rehabilitation anyway, compared to adult fanatics. Ideally, those who recruit children for terror should receive the harshest penalties imaginable, with extreme prejudice. 2009-11-22T;22:02:00-05:00 I can't speak to the accuracy of the report Mr. Levin cites, but I do know that virtually every one of those children are in prison because their Palestinian education and often family life teaches them nothing but hate and racism against Jews and other non-Muslim religions. After all, Israel has better things to do than randomly arresting children. I have a feeling the Defence for Children report omits those observations. http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/8/88/Suicide-bomber-baby01.jpg 2009-11-22T;22:02:00-05:00 One Jew is worth 1000 Arabs. I didn't say this; Hamas did. 2009-11-22T;22:02:00-05:00 Attacks on Jews in other countries seem to rise whenever Israel is called upon to actively defend herself, so there is a link to some extent. Jew haters can't take uppity Jews actually sticking up for themselves. Better we should be quiet and subservient... wait, that didn't work during the Holocaust. The funny thing is, so many Jews left Russia, you would think anti-Semitism would fade away. How can you blame Jews for your troubles when most of them left? The disease of anti-Semitism makes them so desperate to attack Jews, they attack DEAD Jews. I am saddened that they have nothing better to do with their free time. 2009-11-22T;22:02:00-05:00 Marilyn, In support of Mr. Weinblatt, I would add that, sure, many different people have been persecuted at times throughout history. The Jews stick out like a sore thumb because, in practically every generation, someone rises up to annihilate us (obviously not my words, but true). When the Jews were different, they were persecuted for being different. When they tried to assimilate, they were persecuted for sneakily trying to blend in. When they were in the diaspora, they were repeatedly expelled. When they tried to leave the USSR, they were accused of stealing state secrets. When they went back to their original land, they were condemned for stealing it from the Arabs (who, of course, were living on the originally Jewish land). Reminds me of "The Ballad of John and Yoko," except with millions of deaths. Bottom line is, Jews have been more consistently murdered than any other group in history, and Jews have murdered fewer of their opponents than any other group in history (self defense does not count, but this would be true even if it did). Despite all this, Jews have contributed more per capita to the world (science, art, law, music, philanthropy, etc.) than any other group. Israel as a country has contributed more than all the Arab countries combined (all without a drop of oil underground). So it's time all you Israel bashers got off her back. It may be trendy, but it's all been done before. 2009-11-22T;22:02:00-05:00 Cheryl, Unfortunately, pogroms are still possible. However, today's pogroms are truck bombs outside synagogues, Jewish community centers, et. al. 2009-11-22T;22:02:00-05:00 In response to DRE's 9-26 posts: 1. I don't know if I would rely on the accuracy of any Palestinian casualty figures, but, assuming more Palestinian children have been killed in the conflict, your sentence is still misleading. You said "Israelis target and kill many more civilians than do Palestinians." The truth is, Palestinians constantly "target" civilians. Every terror projectile fired from Gaza since Israel withdrew was aimed at civilian population centers. Every suicide bomb targets civilians. You don't blow yourself up in a mall or on a bus because you want to avoid killing civilians. You don't fill the bombs with nails because civilian casualties are abhorrent to you. This is so fundamental, I wonder through what lens you are viewing the conflict. Yes, many Palestinian civilians have died, but IDF intent is low on the list of reasons. Please enlighten us as to what other armies in the world call people on the other side on their cell phones to warn them to leave the area of an impending attack? Has Hamas or Fatah ever called in a warning of a terrorist attack? Frankly, when you state half truths like "target and kill," you lose whatever credibility you might have for other arguments. Besides, if the Palestinians had more accurate weapons, don't you think that, just maybe, the Israeli civilian death toll would be far higher? Imagine if the Palestinians had an air force. Would they hesitate carpet bombing Tel-Aviv? Would they bother with smart bombs to avoid collateral damage? If the two sides traded weapons for one day, Israel would suffer a bloodbath dwarfing anything everything combined inflicted on the Palestinians. Too bad you don't see that. 2. Human Rights Watch is well known for its anti-Israel bias. I imagine they talked to some Palestinians who told them what they wanted to hear. I'm sure there were some isolated IDF violations in the heat of war; when aren't there in any conflict? You're trying to extrapolate individual examples into IDF policy. Such inductive reasoning is highly flawed. 3. Painting Israel as the aggressor in '67 and '73 is downright dumb, no matter who you cite. Nasser ordered UN peace keepers out of the Sinai, as he built up an invasion force of 100,000 plus and boasted he was about to push Israel into the sea. Jews learned from the Holocaust that, when someone announces he's going to kill you, believe him. '73 was a well-documented sneak attack by Egypt and Syria. What more analysis does it need? 4. Are you saying that, if Israel had been nicer to its Arabs in 1947, there would've been no war in 1948? Seriously? C'mon... really? 2009-11-22T;22:02:00-05:00 And by the way, to the extent that the West Bank is "occupied," it is "occupied" from Jordan. Gaza is "occupied" from Egypt. If those two countries want their land back, that is one thing. But they don't want it back because they don't want to deal with the trouble makers who live there (and I'm not referring to settlers). So the Arabs who live there are stuck with Israel. It's not like Israel invaded some mythical country called "Palestine" and occupied the country. So those who advocate for a new country to be named "Palestine" better be sure that the Arabs there are capable of running a country. Everything so far has indicated a "Palestine" would be a bloody disaster. Another Somalia. 2009-11-22T;22:02:00-05:00 Israel had borders for centuries too. More centuries than Spain. Mexico had borders too, before they lost Texas. Maybe you should campaign to return it. 2009-11-22T;22:02:00-05:00 Like "Empire of the Ants (1977)," except the giant ants are Muslims? 2009-11-22T;22:02:00-05:00 dre, Every argument you attempt in your 9-25 (3:38 A.M. - was your Israel hatred keeping you awake?) can be easily refuted. Just touching on some heillights [sic]: 1. Palestinians killing Israelis are terrorists, but not visa versa: Palestinians target civilians, duh! The IDF takes extraordinary measures to spare civilians (to the chagrin of Hamas, which LOVES it when their civilians die), more so than any army in the world under similar circumstances. Who other than Hamas would gather civilians on a roof of a building Israel warned would soon be bombed (ironically Israel did this to avoid casualties, and Hamas did what they did to increase them, or because they knew Israel wished to avoid them)? 2. The UN resolutions. Funny how you ignore the UN resolution which legally created Israel, and which was ignored by the numerous Arab countries which attacked Israel. The other resolutions you merely misinterpret. 3. Israel is not really a safe haven for Jews. Maybe not, with people like you walking around. In any event, had Israel existed during the Holocaust, many more Jews would've been saved. Instead, the Arab leadership did everything in its power to choke off Jewish refugees (and the Grand Mufti of Jerusalem busily planned the Middle East Holocaust). At least the Jews have one place where they can be defended by an army. 4. It is Arabs' responsibility to solve the Palestinian refugee problem: they tried to "solve" it in 1967 and 1973. Also, see #2. 5. Collective punishment of Palestinians: When some Japanese attacked Pearl Harbor, the U.S. declared war on all of Japan. Go figure. 6. G-d is racist for giving Israel to the Jews: Let's have lunch in Mecca to discuss this point. 7. Comparing Auschwitz to Deir Yassin: Yes, hundreds of thousands of Jews systematically murdered compares to 107 Arabs. I should report you to the BBC for being disproportionate. 8. Mixing religion and government: Would you rather live in Israel or in a country governed by Sharia? Don't get caught stealing a loaf of bread in the latter, Lefty! 9. Nazi "master race" vs. Jewish "Chosen People:" Are you really unaware of the distinction? Let me spell it out for you, then: The "master race" intended to conquer the world and kill all Jews (plus numerous other groups). The "Chosen People" were to help the world (providing the basis for modern law, contributing far more than their share in fields such as medicine, technology, art, you name it). I suggest that the next time you rant and rave at 3:38 A.M., maybe look it over in the light of day before you publish it on this site. Then, don't publish it. 2009-11-22T;22:02:00-05:00 Alice Walker overlooks the fact that the suicide bombers target civilians. How would she feel if she were on a bus and some disgruntled Afghan blew it up? As she was burning to death, would she think she deserved her fate because of our policies in Afghanistan? Ironic how the Palestinians trot out the expression "collective punishment" when terrorism is the ultimate collective punishment. 2009-11-22T;22:02:00-05:00 Migrant workers may very well get a raw deal in Israel, as they tend to do in dozens of countries, including (often) the U.S. But D.R., as usual, singles out Israel. The article he cites almost laments that the migrant workers took the place of Palestinians who used to scamper into Israel for work, but their terrorist leaders screwed up a good thing. Without Arafat and his intifada tactics, this wouldn't even be an issue. Too bad D.R. couldn't attend the Ahmadinejad speech. He would've stood out as the only one standing up and applauding at the end. Maybe even score an autograph! 2009-11-22T;22:02:00-05:00 That's weird, D.R.; I always thought aliens killed JFK. Well, at least now we know that nuclear technicians in Israel were privy to all the top secret Mossad operations. Or maybe Vanunu just dreamed it. Maybe the Palestinian friends he lives with told him about it. At least we know for sure that an Arab assassinated Robert Kennedy (Sirhan Sirhan; so evil he had to say it twice). 2009-11-22T;22:02:00-05:00 By the logic of this article, we Americans would love the U.S. less too. The thing about Israel and the U.S. is, if you're dissatisfied, you can peacefully work to change things for the better. In many countries, such activity merely gets you thrown in jail (e.g., Iran). 2009-11-22T;22:02:00-05:00 Thomas, Good points, and I might've added, "instead of a two-state solution, why not simply offer the West Bank back to Jordan (and what would they say?)?" Interesting that to achieve peace, Israel had to give Egypt back Sinai, but not Gaza. Says a lot. 2009-11-22T;22:02:00-05:00 Ari I'm sure that if half of Israel had been conquered by the Arabs in '67, the world would still be clamoring for them to give it back, right? Dream on. 2009-11-22T;22:02:00-05:00 T.D., They succumbed to terrorist blackmail is what they did. By the terrorism causing the election of people who then kissed the terrorists' ass, they encouraged terrorism all over Europe. Yeah, look after your citizens and screw over everybody else. Reeeel honorable. Of course, I'm confident you would defend Israel's security barrier as defending their own citizens. Right? 2009-11-22T;22:02:00-05:00 Yeah, they so "honorably" withdrew their forces from the Iraq coalition after Muslim terrorists bombed their trains. 2009-11-22T;22:02:00-05:00 Alex, The Holocaust has been thoroughly "investigated." You can go to the library or bookstore and find thousands of books on the subject. You can go to numerous Holocaust museums around the world and see exhibits. Thousands of Holocaust survivors have recorded their experiences for posterity and education. However, Ahmadinejad doesn't want to "investigate" anything, except perhaps how he could do a better job of killing Jews. If he wanted to neutrally investigate the Holocaust, he wouldn't already use words like "myth" to describe it. Any attempt to make a-holes like him sound reasonable is several levels below lame. 2009-11-22T;22:02:00-05:00 The Arabs are good at shooting themselves in the foot. The Palestinians empty the gun into theirs. 2009-11-22T;22:02:00-05:00 Gaza got off easy, given their years of provocation. Funny how other people who consider themselves oppressed don't commit terror attacks at every opportunity. Compare and contrast Tibet, for example. 2009-11-22T;22:02:00-05:00 The concept of "proportionality" does not apply when the other side attacks you so persistently. There comes a point of no return. Besides, if Israel had launched a smaller response, who's to say that Hamas would've stopped the terror projectiles? Operation Cast Lead achieved its objective: to stop the attacks. That was the proportionality; how much brute force did it take to put an end to thousands of attacks? This brings to mind a line in a speech by General Patton to his troops (at least in the movie): "Now, I am not asking you to die for your country. Make the poor, dumb bastard on the other side die for his country!" Given that this is the unfortunate purpose of war, I'm astounded that people fall for the propaganda that Hamas provoked Israel, and was shocked, shocked, that Palestinians ended up dead. But that's the pattern in the Middle East. Provoke Israel, then run crying to the U.N. when Israel wins. 2009-11-22T;22:02:00-05:00 Getting back to the original article, Herenton must've attended the Cynthia McKinney school of political science. 2009-11-22T;22:02:00-05:00 Ira, Hamas was democratically elected to some power, then brutally stole the rest. How many hundreds of Fatahs did they kill? However, since you consider them the democratically elected government of Gaza, you must hold all the people of Gaza responsible for Hamas' decisions. Just like the people of Japan suffered because their leader approved the sneak attack on Pearl Harbor, the Gazans will bear the brunt of their stupidity in electing terrorists to power. As in any war, people don't declare it; their leaders do. The people then suffer. We've been lucky in the U.S. because our civilian population is geographically protected from every war we've fought since the War of 1812. But the Europeans know, as do Africans and Asians. Finally, what kind of jerk statement is "fantasies concocted by Zionists?" Are you challenging the fact of thousands of terror missiles fired from Gaza, each one meant to murder civilians? Or do you deny Israel exercised restraint? How do you think the U.S. would respond if Mexico fired thousands of missiles at, say, Houston? How would you respond if you lived in Sderot during that period? Maybe you like the comfiness of a bomb shelter; most people don't. Enough with the trendy Israel bashing. Become an activist for people who really deserve it, like those in Darfur, Tibet or Myanmar. At least they didn't elect terrorists to run their government. 2009-11-22T;22:02:00-05:00 I suppose he thinks there was more religious freedom when East Jerusalem was controlled by Jordan. 2009-11-22T;22:02:00-05:00 No doubt Hamas will accuse Israel of aggression for arresting this murderer. 2009-11-22T;22:02:00-05:00 Just because some people lived there doesn't mean they had a country there. They didn't start calling themselves "Palestinians" until 1967. Israel, on the other hand, was a real country, established by Jews for Jews, a thousand years before Islam's creation. You know this, but you don't care. You sound more anti-Jewish than pro-Palestinian, anyway. Why else would you fixate on Palestinians, when there are millions of people suffering far worse, throughout the world? You consider Israel racist, but don't flinch when you hear an expression such as "sacred Muslim lands." There's plenty of Muslim countries in the world, and, frankly, the world doesn't need any more of them. I hate to think of the mess that a Palestinian state would become. Another Somalia, perhaps? Sadly, even if Israel offered reparations to aggrieved "Palestinians," there would be others who would consider acceptance of same as betrayal of the "cause", justifying murder of those who wish to settle the matter permanently. I didn't "charge" that most U.S. citizens favor Israel; I stated a fact. We support Israel because Israel is a modern democracy, like us. Besides, Muslim propaganda dwarfs anything the Jews have ever attempted. Jews don't depict Muslims as descended from apes and pigs. Jews' don't publish cartoons showing Muslims using baby blood to make matzohs, or plotting to take over the world and destroy all other religions' sacred sites. Much of European support for Palestinians stems from Arab oil dependency and fear of the trouble that would ensue from their restive Muslim populations. Look what just a few Danish cartoons caused. Perhaps you'd prefer a world caliphate in which you'd be forced to grow a beard just so, and your female relatives would be beaten for showing their ankles in public. Maybe you'd like to live in Gaza, where, if you publicly disagree with Hamas, they might just come to your house and shoot you. Personally, I prefer Israel's system. 2009-11-22T;22:02:00-05:00 None of you see the irony that Muslims from Ethiopia and Eritrea are passing through Muslim Egypt on their to asylum in Jewish Israel. 2009-11-22T;22:02:00-05:00 I addressed you as "D.R." I should've written "D.R.E.," which would also symbolize the dreck you write. 2009-11-22T;22:02:00-05:00 Will, I think you watched "1984" too many times. 2009-11-22T;22:02:00-05:00 D.R., Once again your response exposes your bias and true colors. 1. Your top cite sends us to a posting by "Occidental Dissent," a neo-Nazi site which describes itself as committed to "White racial and cultural preservation." How credible. The video itself addresses allegations that some Israeli men were seen dancing on top of a van during 9-11. The video uses that allegation alone to make a gigantic leap to the implication that the Mossad was behind 9-11. Isn't it an interesting theory that a top flight intelligence organization like Mossad would plan 9-11 in utter secrecy, then publicly celebrate while 9-11 unfolded? How moronic can you get? So your first argument has Nazis discussing conspiracy theory. I suppose Osama bin Laden's bragging about 9-11 was faked? 2. Your second cite doesn't establish what you represent. It's merely a discussion of the possible jurisdiction of the International Criminal Court to investigate charges by the PA of war crimes. The spokesperson goes out of her way to state she is not judging whether the allegations have any merit. The video, spliced together by the leftist Real News Network, shows no "indiscriminate widespread shelling of civilian areas." It shows snippets of the conflict, with no context. Um, we already knew a war was fought there and we already know that war causes casualties and damage to property. That's like showing video of Tokyo after we bombed it during WWII to establish the U.S. committed war crimes. What your cited video doesn't show is telling: not one second of Hamas firing projectiles into Israel, not one moment of Sderot citizens huddling in bomb shelters. Your denial that Hamas embeds itself among civilians defies belief. You can't just make up lies and expect to have any credibility. Not with the smart Jews who frequent JTA.org, sorry. 3. This brings us to your third faulty cite, which denies that Operation Cast Lead was launched in response to rocket attacks by Hamas. The cite displays a graph which shows that Hamas fired 98 terror projectiles into Israel during December, just before Operation Cast Lead began. Maybe you'd sit back and tolerate someone trying to kill you and your family, but Israel has the right of self defense. Too bad Hamas decided not to extend the lull; they brought war upon their people. D.R., enough of your B.S. already. It's really tiresome. 2009-11-22T;22:02:00-05:00 Will, Well, I'm no fan of the Patriot Act, but ascribing such motivations to airport security seems like a reach. Besides, airport security is just as asinine in European airports. I accidentally left some change in my pocket, before going through the metal detector at Charles DeGaulle Airport. The logical and quickest thing to do would've been to have me dump my change in the bin and go through the metal detector again. Instead, the guard sent me over to the side, where every square inch of my body was wanded, I got felt up and was asked to turn my tee-shirt inside out because the Paris logo in the center felt thicker than the rest of the fabric. So here I am, a middle aged guy, traveling with wife and 2 kids, subjected to scrutiny as if I pose any type of threat to security. Any moron could see I wasn't a threat. So I think the people who make up security procedures are more concerned with political correctness and being able to claim they were thorough, in case something does happen. I do agree that, if you raise a stink at the security checkpoints, you risk having them mess with you to the full extent of their power, just to show you they're in charge. But this seems more like a power trip than an officially sanctioned mental conditioning. At least while the guard in Paris was feeling me up, I looked at a female guard and some other flyers and rolled my eyes like I was enjoying the experience. I got an appreciative laugh, which was compensation enough for my wasted time. 2009-11-22T;22:02:00-05:00 If they want to mess with us, they don't even have to actually kill anyone. When Richard Reid (the would-be shoe bomber) was stopped, we suddenly and permanently had to remove our shoes at every airport. All the terrorists have to do is have someone get caught smuggling explosives in some body cavity, and... 2009-11-22T;22:02:00-05:00 D.R. - Your analogy is flawed, as usual. The Jews were returning to their land, and other Jews had a continuous presence in the land for thousands of years. I suppose from your choice of words that you think it's wrong to imprison terrorists (couched as "those who resist us"). So you'd give Osama a pass? Israel starves Palestinians? That's a new one. There's lots of countries in the world where people die of starvation (mostly in Africa), but nobody starves in Gaza or the West Bank. The only "human right" Israel denies is the right to kill Jews. Sorry about that! But the Muslims in Israel have more human rights than they'd have in most Middle Eastern countries (especially women). The Palestinians in the disputed territories have fewer rights, partly because they export terror and partly because of laws imposed by Hamas and Fatah (including death to anyone who sells his home to a Jew). 2009-11-22T;22:02:00-05:00 I don't think the link takes you right to it, so just go to youtube and seach for "Palestinians celebrating 9-11." Truly sickening. 2009-11-22T;22:02:00-05:00 Maybe this latest incident was all a misunderstanding. See, Hezbollah was celebrating 9-11, and a few of their rockets got away from them and headed into Israel... 2009-11-22T;22:02:00-05:00 Will, thanks for the support, I think. D.R., I notice you adopt the arguments and views of every agency or person which leans toward the Palestinian side. Not surprising. Considering how embedded Hamas was amongst civilians, and how they commit perfidy by wearing civilian clothes, the relatively low number of civilian casualties is remarkable. Perhaps you know of urban wars with lower civilian casualties; be sure to point them out. I suppose Israel owes the world an apology that more of its people weren't killed. 13 is just so insignificant. I'm sure the relatives and friends of those 13 would have you over for dinner and friendly banter. And let's be sure to disregard the tens of thousands of Sderot residents who lived in fear since the Gaza disengagement. Those thousands of terror missiles weren't a provocation; just an inconvenience, right? Yes, Israel is far more powerful than Hamas. So too bad Hamas stupidly provoked Israel, thousands of times. Since you're so supportive of the Palestinians, today, the eighth anniversary of 9-11, is a good day to watch: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KrMOdAFsZ8k. A reminder of how broken up they were over 9-11. 2009-11-22T;22:02:00-05:00 Jackson, Maybe you can get an audience with Ahmadinejad. 2009-11-22T;22:02:00-05:00 The Iranians aren't exactly swimming in credibility these days. The Arab countries fear those Mullahs as much or more than they hate Israel. Chavez is what he is, mostly a blowhard. I don't know who to feel more sorry for, Venezuelan average citizens or their Iranian counterparts. Probably the latter, because their leaders may get them killed. Note: By "average citizen," I don't mean Revolutionary Guards and their fanatical ilk, who better pray Israel doesn't decide to knock the chip off their shoulder. 2009-11-22T;22:02:00-05:00 Blackie, I needn't defend my awareness of or enmity for the Jew-haters. But don't confuse my desire to save the worst epitaphs for the lowest of the low with empathy for others who aren't in the league of murderers. When D.E. posts his exaggerated red herring words like "slaughter" and "prison camp," I call him out. I consider his words biased and naive (or they may derive from baser motivation), but he hasn't earned the appellation "sub-human filth." The name-calling is unnecessary in this forum. We're on JTA.org, not Jerry Springer. As for confronting neo-Nazis, there's not much to say to them; they'll never listen to reason; they hate for the sake of hate. The only way to deal with them is to educate normal people so they won't be swayed by neo-Nazi lies (e.g., the Anti-Defamation League). My priorities are straight. I can agree with what you say (we're on the same team, Amigo), even if I would've put it differently. 2009-11-22T;22:02:00-05:00 Who really cares what the buffoon Chavez says? 2009-11-22T;22:02:00-05:00 Will, I would reserve "sub-human filth" for the actual terrorists. Expressions like that lose their impact if used too broadly. We've got to be precise in how we use strong words, or we become like the Palestinians who purposely misuse words like "genocide, massacre, holocaust and apartheid" to describe how they're allegedly treated. 2009-11-22T;22:02:00-05:00 Considering how Shiites and Sunnis kill each other in Iraq, how do you think Sunnis and Jews would get along? I venture to say that the majority of Israeli Arabs (silently) want no part of Palestinians joining Israel. 2009-11-22T;22:02:00-05:00 Shimon, I concur! 2009-11-22T;22:02:00-05:00 Blackie, Lighten up. 2009-11-22T;22:02:00-05:00 I don't know if the natural gas will eventually be considered an asset of a Palestinian state, but, since there is no such entity (and never was), why shouldn't Israel tap it? It's not like the Gazans will ever drill for themselves. They're good at making bombs and Katyusha rockets, but not much else. I recall what they did with the greenhouses Israel gifted them. Yeah, Arabs and Jews both suffered. The difference is the Arab countries used the Palestinians as political pawns and treat them as second class citizens to this day. Even Palestinians will tell you that. That's why there's no Jewish refugee camps after 60 years. In fact, tens of millions of people were permanently displaced during and after WWII, which happened about the same time as Israel's independence. Why aren't they in refugee camps? By the way, the most recent poll, as reported by The Israel Project (done by an independent polling agency) showed that 95% of Americans feel that Palestinians need to recognize Israel as a legitimate Jewish state. So you are in the vast minority, at least in this country. 2009-11-22T;22:02:00-05:00 Who cares what Cameron Bailey thinks? 2009-11-22T;22:02:00-05:00 Jews always had a presence there, starting centuries before Arabs or before the Muslim religion even came into existence. You may choose to focus on "modern historical" connection, but that seems rather arbitrary. The Israeli/Palestinian conflict is a front line in the war that was declared on the world by Muslim extremists, but it is hardly the only front line. Today marked the anniversary of a 1996 truce signed in the Philippines between the government and Muslim rebels, ending a 26 year insurgency which claimed 120,000 lives. That had nothing to do with Israel or oil or the Ottoman empire, and dwarfs the body count fo the entire Israel/Arab conflict. Thailand has suffered through its own Muslim terrorism, as have many other countries. I venture to say if the U.S. abandoned Israel, things would get worse, not better. It would send messages to the Muslims such as 1. Terrorism works; 2. we can be bought off; and, 3. we are weak. The defeat of the Ottoman Empire resulted from the Arab talent for joining the losing side in every war. So they have repeatedly suffered disgrace and humiliation, but much of it was their own doing. We give foreign aid to many countries, most with far worse human rights records than Israel. Egypt is a good example. We give money to the Palestinians, both directly and through the UN, and their human rights are abysmal, even the so-called "moderate" Fatah. Why shouldn't we give aid to one of our staunchest allies? Israel contributes more to the world than all the Muslim countries combined. If the Arabs didn't have oil, where would they be? Ironically, Israel is the one country in the area with no oil. So they've had to rely on their brains and moxie to succeed in technology, medicine, agriculture, music and multiple other areas. The Arabs could learn many lessons from tiny Israel. I wish Israel were perfect, but they're not. You appear to expect more out of them than any other country. They should restore everything to the way it was in the 1800s after we in the U.S. give all the land back to the Indians, Texas back to Mexico, etc. Don't hold your breath... 2009-11-22T;22:02:00-05:00 Mr. Evans, You are consistent in focusing on everything Israel did wrong or is accused of doing, while ignoring everything the Arabs did wrong. You ignore the Grand Mufti of Jerusalem plotting with Hitler to exterminate the Jews in the Holy Land, during WWII, you don't mention the massacres of Jews by Arabs, you conveniently omit how the Grand Mufti called for every Jew to be murdered, the day after Israel declared its independence. The Wikipedia entry you cite also contains multiple accounts of Arab atrocities against Jews. Of course, these were also occurring well before the Jewish "crimes" on which you narrowly fixate (e.g., Hebron, 1929). Go to http://www.angelfire.com/biz/Israelwire/invasion.html for a more balanced chronology of events in 1947-48. No doubt innocent locals suffered because their leaders were bloodthirsty. It's the history of all war, and the history of the world. When did you become a specialist in this one conflict, during this one period (out of millennia of Jewish history in Israel)? Did it happen gradually or you just woke up one night in a cold sweat? Are you an ardent campaigner for human rights pertaining to other hot zones such as Darfur (with far more suffering than anything the Palestinians have endured), or just the Palestinians? I only ask because of my continued amazement at the world's fixation on Israel, as if everywhere else is hunky dory. Finally, when Muslim terrorists attack various targets on every continent except Antarctica, do you blame all those local countries for whatever they did to provoke the attacks? Or is it... just... Israel? 2009-11-22T;22:02:00-05:00 Good points, Melvyn! I would only add that Israel seems to be the sole exception to the custom wherein the winner of the war keeps the spoils of the war, in the eyes of the Arabs, the Muslims, and the Evans. Why is it that everything good Israel does is minimized and anything bad is maximized? Is it simply Arab hyperbole? Is it some kind of psychological pathology that causes people to resent Jews standing up for themselves? 2009-11-22T;22:02:00-05:00 Perhaps Hamas figures that a low level terror missile threat won't be enough to provoke Operation Cast Lead II. At least not until they get "lucky" and hit a kindergarten. If that happens, we can all ask T.D. if an Israeli military response is "proportionate." Personally, I'd prefer to put a stop to it before Hamas gets "lucky." 2009-11-22T;22:02:00-05:00 I see nothing wrong with educating children that the Palestinian point of view is the reformation of Israel was catastrophic. Better to understand the other fellow's point of view than wallow in ignorance. It doesn't mean you have to agree with that other point of view. It also doesn't mean that only one side can be right. There's always gray areas. Peace is impossible unless both sides are able to see those gray areas. Still, it's unfortunate that the age-old rule that history is written by the winners of the war does not seem to apply to Israel. Mr. Evans, you bemoan the disappearance of Arab names from towns in Israel, but I read that the PA is removing all Hebrew names from streets and locations in the West Bank. So what's the difference? When the North Vietnamese conquered South Vietnam, Saigon became Ho Chi Min City. I just wish the Palestinians would stop naming soccer fields and the like after suicide bomber murderers. That's like us having a Timothy McVeigh High School. 2009-11-22T;22:02:00-05:00 David, I may make stupid comments from time to time, but it's usually a lame attempt at humor (replacing moronic attempts to impress women before I was married). However, my description of "nakba" is spot-on accurate. Historians dispute both the numbers of and reasons for Palestinians leaving. "Nakba" is how events are viewed through Palestinian eyes (and yours too). However, Israel was reformed by UN resolution which created one state for Jews and another for Palestinian Arabs. Hundreds of thousands of Jews left their homes in Arab countries to come to Israel, many forced out during the 1948 upheaval. Hundreds of thousands of Arabs left Israel, for a multitude of reasons. I have no doubt some of those people were forced out, just as some Jews were forced out of Arab countries. Many left at the urging of their Arab brothers to facilitate the slaughter of the Jews, or more innocently, from the fear of war. The difference is, the Jewish refugees were taken into Israel and re-settled, and the Palestinians were excluded by the Arab countries, as convenient political pawns. So, as usual, war caused massive displacement of people, but, for some reason, only the Palestinian displacement in this particular war is so lamented. I cannot think of any other example where grandchildren and great grandchildren of refugees still call themselves refugees. By the way, what do you think the Arabs would've done to the Jews if the Arabs had won? You use the word "slaughter," but an Arab victory would've demonstrated the true meaning of the word. In any event, your analogy of my description of Nakba to Holocaust denial is as flawed as your original comment which I addressed on 8-31 (not to mention viciously insulting). I don't deny that Palestinians suffered and I would never oppose informing Israeli children that Palestinians have that perspective. Holocaust deniers like Hamas want their children to languish in ignorance, so they can be more easily brainwashed into hating and killing Jews. By the way, your comparison of Arabs fleeing a war zone under their own power (while many more stayed put without incident) to Jews being crammed into cattle cars for mass extermination at death camps makes me wonder about YOUR perspective. 2009-11-22T;22:02:00-05:00 The "nakba" is merely a point of view over an historical fact, the reformation of Israel. That's different from refusing to teach children about the largest genocide in history, just because you don't like the politics it implies. The Palestinian penchant for sticking their heads in the sand keeps them from seeing what it looks like to constantly shoot oneself in the foot (in their case, emptying the entire gun into their collective foot). Hamas' refusal to educate their children on this issue exemplifies the saying, "You can bring a fool to knowledge, but you cannot make him think." 2009-11-22T;22:02:00-05:00 Hamas doesn't want the truth about the Holocaust taught to their rabble because 1. they want to claim they were the only victims of genocide in the history of the world (even though they weren't victims of genocide in the least); 2. because they're jealous that the Nazis thought of it before they did (at least in the highly organized sense); and, 3. tin horn gods like them always need to control the flow of information to their servants. I'm waiting for Chris Smith to log on to state the "Gaza slaughter" was worse than the Holocaust... C'mon, Chris, don't disappoint! 2009-11-22T;22:02:00-05:00 The Arabs do have some liability for the Holocaust. 1. They pressured the British not to allow in Jewish refugees, which increased the number of murdered Jews. 2. The Grand Mufti of Jerusalem plotted with Adolph to extend the Holocaust to the Middle East. Only Germany's defeat stopped their scheme. 2009-11-22T;22:02:00-05:00 Chris, It's not what I say, it's what YOU say. Your knee-jerk use of buzzwords like "genocide," "ethnic cleansing," "historic Palestine," "Gaza prison slaughter," and your selective citation of sources, shows your obvious bias. Do you even know what genocide is? How can you compare the Israeli situation with, say, 1994 Rawanda? Ridiculous hyperbole on your part. You must have Palestinian blood in your veins, given your penchant for wild exaggeration. If Israel is committing genocide, then it is the gentlest, lowest casualty and most defensive genocide in human history. "Historic Palestine" in your usage limits history to a narrow slice indeed. Historically, Jews were there first. After they were forced out, Jerusalem had about 20 different changes in rulers. Somehow you only seem to ascribe legitimacy to the Arabs. This reveals some true colors. What you call the Gaza "prison camp," I call Gaza cities. If Gaza residents had unfettered access to Israel, Israeli cities would soon turn into Baghdad, circa 2007, with a car bomb around every corner. Although you might like that, I assume you wouldn't like it in your home town, so stop denying the Israeli right to protect their borders. Operation Cast Lead was a limited war. You call it a slaughter. War involves a certain amount of slaughter, unfortunately. Depending on one's sources, there were 300-900 civilian casualties (it also depends on the definition "civilian," beyond the obvious women and children). Given the way Hamas was dug in, using hospitals, schools and mosques as military bases and weapons depots, dressing as civilians (violating war protocols barring perfidy) and blocking civilians from leaving areas which Israel had warned would soon be attacked, the civilian casualties were startlingly low. Compare Operation Cast Lead to a similar period of time in Iraq, during either Gulf War. Then tell me which army did a better job of avoiding civilian casualties. You make it sound like Israel had its own Dresden. But that's your goal, apparently. Finally, your "who broke the cease fire?" ignores the fact that Hamas on 12-20-08 announced they would not renew the cease fire, which expired on 12-19. On 12-24, at least 60 terror projectiles were fired into Israel. On 12-25, Olmert issued a final warning for this activity to stop. On 12-26, 12 more projectiles were launched from Gaza. On 12-27, Operation Cast Lead began. You can raise the hollow argument that the missiles were not fired by Hamas, but I find it interesting that, during the cease fire, there were virtually no missiles. Obviously, Hamas controlled the terror spigot. Therefore, attacks from Gaza were allowed and sanctioned by those particular terrorists. Maybe you like spending hours per day in bomb shelters, but the citizens of Sderot feel otherwise. Isn't it funny how, after Operation Cast Lead ended, there has been a magical cessation of missile attacks? Apparently, Israel explained to Hamas that attacks would not be tolerated (after 6000 projectiles were tolerated) in the only language Hamas understands. Yeah, the people of Gaza suffered, but no differently than the people suffer whenever their government picks a fight with a stronger foe. Ask the surviving residents of Hiroshima about that. With all the people suffering far worse oppression in the world (e.g., Zimbabwe, Myanmar, North Korea, Somalia, Darfur), why are you so fixated on the Palestinians? Do you admire their ability to party, so aptly demonstrated after 9-11? Do you respect their plucky terrorism, which predates even the reformation of Israel in 1948? I don't expect you to change your opinion; you see this conflict through the lens of biased, black and white (no grey) eyes. It keeps you from acknowledging the sickness of Palestinian society, which elected a terror organization to power, names soccer fields after suicide bombers, and cheered the destruction of the Space Shuttle Columbia, because it had an Israeli astronaut on board. And you think they could run their own country? Peacefully? With human rights? Yes, you have a right to your own opinion, but you do not have a right to your own facts. 2009-11-22T;22:02:00-05:00 Chris, Everything you just stated proves my point. 2009-11-22T;22:02:00-05:00 What strikes me most about this exchange is the vitriol of the Israeli critics. With all the human rights violations in the world, most of which far exceeding Israeli transgressions, you critics of Israel seem obsessed with this tiny little country. It makes me think some psychological phenomenon is at play which magnifies everything Israel has done or might have done. Do you honestly think Israel has human rights abuses even approaching places like Zimbabwe, North Korea, Iran, Congo, China or Cuba? What is it about the Palestinians that makes you such ardent champions of their cause? Was it the way they danced in the streets after 9-11? Their long record of terror attacks (preceding the recreation of Israel in 1948). Are they so much more deserving of your support than the ethnically cleansed Christians in Iraq, southern Lebanon or Pakistan? Do they have more merit than the Tibetans? The oppressed people of Myanmar? Women and gays in half the Muslim countries in the world? So which is it: are you married to a Palestinian? Do you hate the idea of Jews sticking up for themselves? Or is it just trendy to bash Israel? 2009-11-22T;22:02:00-05:00 What did they think the parts would be used for? What better use than to stop terror missiles (which would still be raining down on Sderot, if not for Operation Cast Lead). 2009-11-22T;22:02:00-05:00 Blythman should stick to cooking, because she doesn't know jack about the history of the Middle East. 2009-11-22T;22:02:00-05:00 No reason to think they can accomplish all that. They've received billions in aid over the years and did nothing except acquire more weapons. A de facto state? Replace the "a" in "facto" with a "u" and you'll have a more accurate description of how they'd be on their own. 2009-11-22T;22:02:00-05:00 Unfortunately (as we saw in the last week in Pakistan), all it takes is a false report of someone desecrating a Koran to provoke a Muslim mob into rioting, burning Christian homes and businesses, etc. So irresponsible journalism is not only unprofessional, it is worse than shouting "fire" in a crowded theater. 2009-11-22T;22:02:00-05:00 Good idea, Cheryl! A gor-tex burqa. A "gorqa?" 2009-11-22T;22:02:00-05:00 Gee, why shouldn't the Swedish publication believe Palestinian sources? Don't they always tell the truth? After all, they exposed the poisoning of Arafat (no evidence, but they KNOW it's true), passing out poisoned candy to children, spreading AIDS into the Palestinian community, orchestrating 9-11, and now harvesting organs. I can suggest future scandals they might expose: Israeli doctors made no attempt to revive suicide bombers; Israeli checkpoints are designed to deprive suicide bombers of their 72 virgin bounty; and some synagogues in Tel-Aviv are taller than mosques. 2009-11-22T;22:02:00-05:00 Uh, Eli, it was the Jews land "to begin with." When King David ruled, the Muslim religion was centuries away from inception. If you care to examine more recent history, you'll note that Israel was created by the UN, as a homeland for Jews. The Middle East is chock full of countries with artificially drawn borders (e.g., Iraq and Iran). But getting back to Israel, the Jews were restored to their land, they didn't steal anything. The Muslims who remained are now citizens of Israel. The Muslims who fled at the urging of Arab propagandists (out of groundless fear and to facilitate the liquidation of all Jews in the region) lost out. Boo hoo. Jewish terrorists killed some Arabs, yes, and these numbers were a fraction of the Jews killed by Arab terrorists and mobs. The Grand Mufti of Jerusalem was planning for many more Jewish deaths, but his buddy Hitler lost the war, so those plans had to be scrapped. Boo hoo again. 2009-11-22T;22:02:00-05:00 Dear Thoroughly (may I call you "Thor?"), The only kill commandment I know of is the PA law and codifying fatwa ordering the death of any Arab who sells his land to a Jew. 2009-11-22T;22:02:00-05:00 What strikes me the most is: if Israel were actually doing such a thing, why would the first reports appear in a Swedish tabloid? A heinous act such as harvesting organs from otherwise living people would be screamed about by the Palestinians (justifiably if it were true) in their media, to the BBC, CNN and at the UN. The fact that it first appeared in a Swedish tabloid makes it even more doubtful than the substance of the accusation. Also, considering the Pallywood PR machine, they would be surprisingly negligent for not jumping on a story like this immediately, with photos, ranting imams, crying mothers, etc. 2009-11-22T;22:02:00-05:00 For a glimpse of what Israeli life would be like without the wall, review the headlines of the past week out of Iraq. Multiple suicide bomber attacks, mortar attacks, with more to come. I know the fence is inconvenient to many Palestinians, but it's also inconvenient to the terrorists, so that's the way it's got to be, until the Palestinians abandon terror as their go to tactic. 2009-11-22T;22:02:00-05:00 Will, Yes, the imam is evil and the mob mentality morons who listen to him are idiots. But an idea (Islam) is not necessarily responsible for the people who believe in it (or pervert it). Remember that Catholicism used to persecute Jews, but not today. The religion is the same, but the people changed. Let's hope the same evolution occurs in Islam. Perhaps some day. 2009-11-22T;22:02:00-05:00 Arkady, Perhaps the blood thirsty child killers just think their Allah is different. They'll find out the truth when they stand before him to be judged for their crimes. 2009-11-22T;22:02:00-05:00 Yeah, Will, I wasn't planning on converting to Islam in the near future. However, the religion has lots of merits and it has some definite flaws. Still, the people who manipulate it to their own sick and greedy ends are responsible for much of the bad PR the religion generates. Muslim culture does seem to have stagnated over several centuries. I'm sure there are numerous causes. In any event, there are countries like Morocco, where the people are pretty normal, and there are countries like Somalia, filled with crazies. Both Muslim, but very different societies. So it's not just the religion. Something else is in play. 2009-11-22T;22:02:00-05:00 The Muslims' position on derogatory cartoons of Jews as distinguished from a cartoon of Mohammed is that the Muslim cartoons don't denigrate any prophet. So they feel it's okay to depict a Jew drinking the blood of a Muslim baby, as long as the Jew isn't Moses. If only they remembered the Commandment not to bear false witness against thy neighbor... 2009-11-22T;22:02:00-05:00 Mr. Hess, I would point out that East Jerusalem is part of Israel, having been annexed after the Six Day War. Israel has no obligations under the Road Map, unless the Palestinians fulfill their obligations. Considering their school textbooks, naming soccer fields after suicide bombers and telling their constituents in Arabic that the two state solution would be just the starting point for taking over all of Israel, I wouldn't place much hope on the Road Map. 2009-11-22T;22:02:00-05:00 Given the results of past wars against Israel, I would think that by now the Arabs would have realized that Allah is not on their side. In any event, the angels in Heaven wouldn't enjoy anyone dying, as it is related in the story of Passover, that when the Egyptian army drowned, the angels celebrated and were admonished by G-d (paraphrasing, "My children die and you celebrate?"). One should not take delight in having to kill an enemy, even if it's necessary. 2009-11-22T;22:02:00-05:00 Since Iran ignores the UN rules against inciting genocide, why would they seek UN protection of their pursuit of genocide? 2009-11-22T;22:02:00-05:00 Leland, Who would WANT it? 2009-11-22T;22:02:00-05:00 Mr. Evans, I watched that YouTube video and it didn't mention some important facts: the 2 evicted families were a subset of 28 families in the building which had a legal dispute which dragged out for years in the courts. The court made its final ruling, which required them to pay rent to the legal owner. The 2 evicted families were the only ones who paid no rent, so they were evicted, like anyone not paying rent would be evicted. The remaining families paid their rent and were left alone. So it seems the 2 families tried to hide behind the court (which is their right), but when they didn't like the ruling, they did what they wanted anyway. But let's not let those facts mess up a juicy photo op of crying Arabs. 2009-11-22T;22:02:00-05:00 Too easy. 2009-11-22T;22:02:00-05:00 The problem with Hezbollah is that they have representation in the government, thus, they are part of the government and not supposed to act unilaterally. But they do what they want, nevertheless. The problem this creates for sane Lebanon is that Hezbollah is part of the government, thus Lebanon is responsible for what Hezbollah does. Imagine how life would be in the U.S. if the southern half were controlled by fanatics who launched terror attacks against Mexico, threatening the whole country with war. 2009-11-22T;22:02:00-05:00 Mr. Evans, Save your pontification about international laws and bodies for the Christians driven from their homes in Iraq and southern Lebanon, the Sunnis driven out by the Shiites, the Shiites driven out by the Sunnis, ad nauseam. I can only imagine how many tens of millions of people have been permanently displaced by war since the UN was established. Most won't be getting their homes back, ever. Perhaps they'd have better luck if they all called themselves "Palestinians." As far as the Palestinians getting a cookie cutter geography, considering they never were a country, they have no right to demand to be a country now. I suppose they could request a return of Gaza to Egypt and the West Bank to Jordan, which, ironically and tellingly, Israel would be more willing to do than Egypt and Jordan. As far as your sarcasm over the "generous offer," last I heard, when you lose a war, you tend to lose land and bargaining power. So the hard truth is, Israel's offer was not only generous, it was more than any other country would've given to people living in land captured in war. Let's also remember that Jerusalem was the capital city of Israel centuries before the Muslim religion even existed. Jerusalem was conquered and re-conquered about 20 times after the Jews had it stolen from them. So at what point do the Arabs suddenly gain priority ownership that supersedes all history? How can the Arabs have had land stolen from them, when the same land had been previously stolen from the Jews? Also, since most of the Arabs who left in '48 did so at the urging of other Arabs, the land was really more abandoned than stolen. I find it difficult to feel sorry for people who left to facilitate the genocide of those Jews left behind. My final thought is, if Israel had lost in '48, '67 or '73, there would be no Jewish refugees galvanizing the world's attention, no UNWRA for Jews, no worldwide terrorism committed by Jews. In fact, there wouldn't have been too many Jews from Israel left alive. 2009-11-22T;22:02:00-05:00 Imagine the riots that would ensue if Muslims entering Israel had their Korans confiscated. 2009-11-22T;22:02:00-05:00 Ari, I don't understand how that first sentence would give that impression. I merely question how the Arabs who left Israel in 1948 (and their grandchildren and even great grandchildren) are still claiming refugee status in 2009. Based on their refusal to factor in the passage of time, one could argue that the Jews who were kicked out of Spain in 1492 have a right of return. In fact, one could extend the argument to say since the Jews originally settled in Israel, following the Exodus, and later, were kicked out, the Jews there now are technically refugees who returned home. Makes me dizzy, almost. 2009-11-22T;22:02:00-05:00 61 years after leaving, can a person or his descendants still be deemed a refugee? Where does it end? Do the Jews who fled Arab countries in 1948 have a right of return? My grandparents fled Russia during the Bolshevik Revolution. Do I have a right of return? Do the blacks descended from slaves have a right of return to their villages in Africa? Do the Native Americans have a right of return to their tribal lands? 2009-11-22T;22:02:00-05:00 The Palestinians need better role models. 2009-11-22T;22:02:00-05:00 Sandori, While I agree that Egypt's legal system is not too savory, I also assume they had some reason they arrested these 3 people, and found evidence to support their intelligence. Also, keep in mind that Egypt doesn't go too far out of its way to defend Jews, but a bombed embassy in Cairo would be a black eye (not to mention that embassy bombings cause dozens to hundreds of casualties to passersby, not that the terrorists care). Saudi Arabia's not any better, but wouldn't it have been great if they had detected the 9-11 plot perpetrated by mostly their citizens? At least this one in Egypt got thwarted without loss of life. 2009-11-22T;22:02:00-05:00 Ari, Gaza could've had a very normal, nice economy by now, but, as usual, they shot themselves in the foot. Actually, they emptied most of the gun into their foot. They elected terrorists to govern them, and stood by while the terrorists consolidated their power. They acquiesced without any major protest while Hamas painted a target on all of them, with its bombardment of Sderot and surrounding areas. So, yeah, they don't have full autonomy, like a normal state would, but that's because THEY are not normal. I might also comment that Israel has lots better things it could do besides these security measures, but it joins dozens of countries in having to waste billions of dollars defending against Muslim terrorism. 2009-11-22T;22:02:00-05:00 Mr. Evans, Interesting that you've got to go back 70 years or so to get a juicy quotation. Why not go to memri.org to obtain genocidal anti-Semitic statements made in Arabic by Palestinian political and religious leaders just last week? If you want to talk history, let's go back to 1929 Hebron, where 67 Jews were massacred. Of course, Jews had lived in Hebron for hundreds of years before that, so there was no issue of "stolen lands." Or shall we discuss the Grand Mufti of Jerusalem, who was one of Hitler's best buddies, and plotted a Middle East Holocaust, well before the State of Israel was reborn? Of course, individual Palestinians may be friendly, especially to pro-Palestinian people like you and your friends. I remember quite a different reaction when Ariel Sharon visited the Temple Mount. I also recall their hospitality in October, 2000, when two reservists accidentally wandered into Ramallah and were lynched (what really stands out is the iconic photo of a young Palestinian male proudly displaying his hands, covered with their blood). I fondly recall their friendly celebrations on 9-11, and when the space shuttle Columbia was destroyed (it carried an Israeli astronaut, so time to pass out candy). The problem is not with each individual; it's with their society. Every poll taken shows the majority of their population supports suicide bombings. If they had a normal society, they would never tolerate naming a soccer stadium after a terrorist (there are dozens of such examples). The Palestinian politicians who condemn terrorism almost always say, "This does not help our cause (politically)." In a normal society, they would say, "This is immoral!" Normal clergymen do not give sermons urging their followers to kill members of another religion. Muslim clerics (not all, but too many) routinely exhort their people to kill Jews (not just Israeli Jews), and describe Jews as descended from apes and pigs. Try tuning into some Hamas TV shows directed at children, depicting Mickey Mouse characters killing Jews and urging the children to grow up to be suicide bombers. Sick, sick, sick! If you think a society like this is mature enough to run a country, you are naive indeed. The world doesn't need another Somalia, thank you very much. Israel especially doesn't need a Somalia next door. So don't lecture me about the nice people you met. There's lots of nice Israelis too. As for Dr. Dios, what is wrong with you? 2009-11-22T;22:02:00-05:00 I am constantly amazed at the broad spectrum spanning the human capacity for good and self-sacrifice down to the basest evil. The Holocaust was the ultimate crucible mixing the best and the worst. If only the numbers had been reversed. 2009-11-22T;22:02:00-05:00 Jackie Mason had a really funny bit about Arafat, while Arafat was still alive. He noted that for months, Arafat was holed up in Ramallah, unable to leave his headquarters, unable to bathe, change his clothes, brush his teeth, etc. Yet, when he finally emerged at the end of the siege, he looked exactly the same as when he first went in. 2009-11-22T;22:02:00-05:00 Mr. Evans, I don't equate criticism of Israel with anti-Semitism per se, and even the most ardent supporters of Israel can find things to criticize. After all, no nation is perfect. The bone I pick with you is the double standard/ higher standard you apply to Israel. An illustration is your choice of words in your last missive: "apartheid ethnic-cleansing regimes in Jerusalem..." Please refer to Darfur, southern Lebanon, dozens of Iraqi neighborhoods and the former Yugoslavia for real examples of ethnic cleansing. The only part of Israel which was ethnically cleansed was Gaza, which was "cleansed" of every Jew. In the West Bank, any Muslim who willingly sells his land to a Jew is subject to the death penalty, both under PA law and Fatwa. Could a society be any more racist than that of the Palestinians, to invoke such a law? Your use of the buzzword "apartheid" ignores Arab representation in every aspect of Israeli society, including the Supreme Court and Knesset. The only right the Muslims in Israel lack is the right to kill Jews. The Palestinians' industrious pursuit of this "right" has indeed caused them much collateral misery, but, when you shoot yourself in the foot, expect it to hurt. So I say to you, the world is full of minorities being summarily imprisoned, executed, raped, amputated, genitally mutilated, pressed into military service as minors, involuntarily married at age 9-12, women whipped and beaten for showing a little ankle, and politically imprisoned for NON-VIOLENT (unlike the 12,000 Palestinians you wept over earlier in this thread) expression of their political beliefs. Go spend your attention on them, and get off Israel's back! 2009-11-22T;22:02:00-05:00 Will, Unfortunately, there is not enough deterrence for certain crimes without the hate crime kicker. If some anti-Semite feels like vandalizing a synagogue, he should know he faces more punishment than he would for, say, wrecking his motel room. Totalitarianism can only sneak in if a person is prosecuted for hateful conduct which does not otherwise break any law (e.g., peaceful demonstration). If some jerk wants to burn an Israeli flag, fine, as long as it is HIS Israeli flag. Get it? 2009-11-22T;22:02:00-05:00 Mr. Evans, I remind you that Israel conquered the territories as a result of a defensive war. Regarding the West Bank, Israel begged Jordan not to get involved, but Jordan joined Egypt and Syria and they lost the West Bank and East Jerusalem. So, if you consider this land "stolen," you must also demand that the U.S. return Texas to Mexico, and give back huge swaths of the country back to the Native Americans. As for your scurrilous allegation that thousands of innocent men, women and children are rotting is Israeli prisons, Israel has the fairest legal system in the entire Middle East. If there are some people wrongfully in jail, the percentage is probably lower than that in the U.S., and way lower than in any Arab country (I'll let you choose, good luck). Perhaps if the Palestinians stopped naming schools and soccer fields after mass murdering terrorists, fewer of their number would end up in prison. Finally, as far as "balance" is concerned, if a neighboring country was sending in terrorists to blow up U.S. shopping malls, theaters and restaurants, what kind of response would YOU demand? Thank G-d the military forces are not equal. Can you imagine what Hamas would do if they had an air force? Do you honestly think they would have any hesitation to carpet bomb Tel-Aviv? The Palestinians didn't dance on the roofs of their homes when SCUDs were landing in Israel during the first Gulf war because they were saddened by Israeli civilian casualties. And they don't mourn or order inquiries when one of their suicide bomber role models gets "lucky" and kills dozens of Israeli civilians. The only investigation Hamas will ever undertake regarding its war crimes would be to determine why more war crimes weren't committed. I am so sick of people like you singling out Israel, which is not perfect, but does pretty well, considering its circumstances. Better you should invest your outrage on countries like Myanmar, Zimbabwe and North Korea, where human rights violations are a way of life. But perhaps that wouldn't be as trendy for you. 2009-11-22T;22:02:00-05:00 Obviously Fatah never heard of the Commandment not to bear false witness against thy neighbor. 2009-11-22T;22:02:00-05:00 It's rare to read about HRW condemning Palestinians, so yea! However, HRW should realize that it's easy to criticize Israel for trying to stop the terror missiles. It's much tougher to provide an alternative that really would have worked. 2009-11-22T;22:02:00-05:00 President Obama has to make sure he's fully aware of all the psychotic influences on Muslim society (not just Palestinian society). Websites like memri.org might help him realize the enormity of influence pushing against any peace efforts. Freezing settlements won't accomplish much while Palestinian textbooks revile Jews and fail to even refer to Israel by its proper name. When the majority of Palestinians support suicide bombings (as every poll demonstrates), it's hard to argue that freezing settlements is going to magically reverse that societal attitude. Israel learned the hard way in Gaza what happens when you give up something for nothing. President Obama will eventually learn it too. 2009-11-22T;22:02:00-05:00 Some crimes have stiff enough sentences that the hate crime designation would make little difference. However, other crimes do not. Take for example a teenager arrested for spraying graffiti on a building. Should spraying his name or the name of his gang on a warehouse be punished the same as spraying "Die Jews!" on the side of a synagogue? The latter has a more malevolent motivation and causes more pain and damage to society (not just the targeted group). Free speech and thought is constitutionally protected only within the bounds of the law. One can hate Jews if one wants to; one can talk about it all he wants. However, incorporating such hatred into a crime tends to give the crime more impact than a hate-neutral crime. Thus, there is some justification for a harsher penalty. Other areas of the law examine thought, intent and motivation. Compare involuntary manslaughter to murder. In both cases, the criminal did something that caused a death. He committed involuntary manslaughter if he did something criminal or stupid which he should've known might kill someone (e.g., fooling around at a party with a gun, which then accidentally discharges). He is guilty of murder if he intended to kill. Those guilty of hate crimes usually seek to intimidate the targeted group. That's why they don't spray paint "Die Jews" on their own house. They sneak into a Jewish neighborhood in the stealth of night and target a synagogue, a Jewish school or cemetery. Unfortunately, there's enough of these morons in our society where we may need the deterrence of hate crime legislation. 2009-11-22T;22:02:00-05:00 It sounds like Fayyad simply wants the Palestinians to have a normal society. Hope he doesn't get assassinated by the fanatics. 2009-11-22T;22:02:00-05:00 A non-event. At least he wasn't upbraided by former representative Cynthia McKinney. 2009-11-22T;22:02:00-05:00 The veiled threat is, "Give us what we want or face the third intifada!" 2009-11-22T;22:02:00-05:00 Hey, Thoroughly, I was unaware you had inspected the hassidim for the presence of dirt. Interesting hobby. Jewish women get beaten for refusing to go to the back of the bus? That's a new one on me. Perhaps you can provide some documentation. Phili, I wouldn't necessarily be dissuaded just because the speaker wore a burqa, but I'm afraid a Male Muslim judge would. 2009-11-22T;22:02:00-05:00 Of course, there were times when a warning of an air strike precipitated hundreds of "civilians" turning out to be human shields. Maybe they should warn of an attack in 10 minutes, then shoot the terrorists when they come out. 2009-11-22T;22:02:00-05:00 Apparently, one Israeli soldier is worth at least 500 Palestinian terrorists (based on Hamas' demands for the release of Gilad Shalit). 2009-11-22T;22:02:00-05:00 Joey, The Palestinians could demonstrate their "humanity" far more effectively if they didn't elect a terrorist organization (Hamas) to power, and if the majority of their population didn't support terror attacks (in every poll taken over the last decade in Gaza). 2009-11-22T;22:02:00-05:00 It kind of makes you wonder if the judge will require 2 female lawyers to counter the argument of 1 male lawyer. 2009-11-22T;22:02:00-05:00 Ari, At least no Jew who sells land to a Muslim is in danger of being put to death. Go to http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellitecid=1239710821246&pagename=JPost/JPArticle/ShowFull Moreover, just because Jerusalem is not internationally recognized as part of Israel doesn't make it not part of Israel. That's like saying if other countries didn't recognize Texas as being part of the U.S., after we got it from Mexico, only Mexicans should be allowed to buy property in Texas. Ari, in case you missed it, a great part of the "international" community doesn't think Israel should even exist. East Jerusalem was captured during war. Most wars result in shifting ownership and sovereignty over land. Iraq and Iran's borders were artificially carved out by Britain around 1914. Are they legitimate? Throughout history, the winner gets to dictate the borders. The ONLY reason Israel is singled out is due to religion. Don't be so naive to think otherwise. 2009-11-22T;22:02:00-05:00 Somehow it is hard to imagine the U.S. retaliating if Iran nuked Israel, at least not the massive retaliation that an attack on the U.S. would bring. 2009-11-22T;22:02:00-05:00 The Palestinians get the right to complain about Jews buying land in East Jerusalem when the Jews (or any non-Muslims) get to buy land (or set foot in) Mecca. 2009-11-22T;22:02:00-05:00 The excuse that Jordan doesn't want to weaken the Palestinian "cause" simply demonstrates the ongoing use of Palestinians as political pawns. The article pointed out that the PA lobbied for this denial of citizenship. So the PA and Jordan are more concerned with keeping as many pawns in the fold than they care about what the people themselves desire. I've always noticed that the most authoritarian governments want to keep you in. Thus, the PA. 2009-11-22T;22:02:00-05:00 Maybe their workers think HRW means "Hebrew Repression Watch." 2009-11-22T;22:02:00-05:00 The irony is that all the West Bank Palestinians were Jordanian until the Six Day War. Now, Jordan wants nothing to do with them. Must have something to do with the winsome personality of radical Palestinians. 2009-11-22T;22:02:00-05:00 Thoroughly, The worst of the worst is Israel? Give me a break. Where would you rather live, Israel or Zimbabwe? Israel or North Korea? Israel or Saudi Arabia? Israel or Myanmar? I could go on and on. Even the Palestinians have more rights in Israel than they'd have in any Arab country in the Middle East. The only right they lack is the right to murder Jews. Poor things. All the misery they have brought upon themselves with their terrorist policies and jihadist teachings of hate and anti-Semitism. You probably would excuse a murderer by saying he had a tough childhood. 2009-11-22T;22:02:00-05:00 Mr. Hicks, I would remind you that the West Bank was Jordanian and Gaza was Egyptian before the Six Day War. The only people with claims of sovereignty over these lands other than Israel are Jordanians and Egyptians, and I guarantee you they don't want the Palestinians back. I don't know why you label the occupation as illegal. How many wars in history have resulted in new ownership of land? The entire Middle East is comprised of artificial borders resulting from wars, most recently WWII and the Six Day War. But you only seem concerned with this one result. What did the Palestinians do to merit such lopsided devotion? Perhaps you are impressed with their plucky terrorism. 2009-11-22T;22:02:00-05:00 Loach sounds like he is a combination of naive and hypocritical (or perhaps just tunnel vision). He should boycott any activity which receives money from the Philippines, since they deny a state to the Muslim terrorists there. Ditto for Thailand. While he's at it, he should studiously avoid any China-funded project, given the grievances of their Muslims (not to mention their Tibetans). Sadly, he is far from alone in this malady. 2009-11-22T;22:02:00-05:00 Of course the Jews have the right to buy property anywhere in Jerusalem. I only hope that the Muslim doing the selling doesn't get murdered by his own people. 2009-11-22T;22:02:00-05:00 If settlers did it, they were wrong. Wrong is wrong. It's a crime against the locals and a crime against nature, and thus G-d. 2009-11-22T;22:02:00-05:00 As if any British tourists would be eager to visit Gaza... I wonder if any British organizations banned Mercedes Benz maps of the Middle East omitting Israel... 2009-11-22T;22:02:00-05:00 A settlement freeze should be no more a pre-condition than a freeze on Palestinians having 6 kids per family. 2009-11-22T;22:02:00-05:00 Good for Mr. Moore! 2009-11-22T;22:02:00-05:00 The enemy of my enemy is my friend. 2009-11-22T;22:02:00-05:00 Solana should propose Muslim states everywhere Muslims demand: the Philippines, Thailand, China, maybe even Detroit. 2009-11-22T;22:02:00-05:00 Uh, didn't Britain participate in the bombing of AXIS cities during WWII? Let's see... London was bombed and England returned the favor. Hamas targeted civilian areas with thousands of rockets and Israel responded with as much surgical precision as practical. I think Israel gets higher marks than England did in WWII. 2009-11-22T;22:02:00-05:00 Cynthia McKinney is a real piece of...work. She was investigated a few years ago after she allegedly struck a Congressional security guard when he didn't recognize her as a Congresswoman after she walked around a metal detector. She blamed the whole incident on racial profiling, but later apologized. When she lost the subsequent election, many of her aids spewed anti-Semitic insults. Her father is a rabid anti-Semite. She has big support in the Arab community and has received mega bucks from Arab sources. She has espoused all sorts of conspiracy theories regarding 9-11. So don't be surprised by her singling out Israel for attack. It fits her pattern perfectly. 2009-11-22T;22:02:00-05:00 Somehow I think Mr. Pillay locks the door to his house. Yet he doesn't think Israel has the same right, even with terrorist neighbors. 2009-11-22T;22:02:00-05:00 It would be much easier just to bomb the head mullahs (better if Achmadinejad could be thrown in as a bonus. Still better if an attack is coordinated on the Republican Guard and the Basij (who seem to delight in beating Iranian protesters). But the most brilliant stroke of intelligence would be to expose financial corruption by the powerful mullahs (if any exists; figure a 50-50 proposition). 2009-11-22T;22:02:00-05:00 One less piece of crap in the world... 2009-11-22T;22:02:00-05:00 Jerusalem belongs to the Jews. The Arabs will just have to accept that. At least we let them live there, which is more than I can say for the Muslims, who won't allow a non-Muslim to even set foot in their holy city (Mecca). Besides, the so-called Palestinians do not DESERVE Jerusalem as their capital. The way they treat Jewish antiquities, the way they teach their children to hate Jews, the way Jews were excluded when Jordan ruled East Jerusalem and how Muslims have intimidated other religions in their midst (e.g., Christians in Bethlehem and southern Lebanon) demonstrates how they would conduct themselves if they were put in charge of East Jerusalem. I say, "We were there first, we got it back and it's ours now. If you don't like it, well, life if full of disappointments." 2009-11-22T;22:02:00-05:00 It's getting to the point where one reads a story like this and just shrugs and thinks, "More mushagi Muslims." Sad. 2009-11-22T;22:02:00-05:00 I think Israel should offer to freeze settlements if the Palestinians will agree to stop having 8 kids per family. 2009-11-22T;22:02:00-05:00 Yeah. He'll be part of the solution, all right. The Final Solution. 2009-11-22T;22:02:00-05:00 Didier, All I know is, there are more than enough Muslim countries in the world. The world can afford a small, Jewish country. The world needs an Israel, even if many people don't realize it. 2009-11-22T;22:02:00-05:00 Kassem, Although you are correct in that Iran was attacked by Iraq, beyond that, you need a little history lesson. Hmm, where to start? How about the fact that, in the Iran-Iraq war, Iran sent thousands of its children as cannon fodder into the Iraqi lines, to test Iraqi emplacements and soften them up for Iranian soldiers? More children were sacrificed by Iran than Israel has ever killed. You claim Israel has attacked its neighbors. I seem to recall Nasser packing about 100,000 troops into the Sinai, kicking out UN peacekeepers, and boasting he would push Israel into the sea. You pull crap like that, you get attacked. Israel attacked Hezbollah after numerous provocations, including the murder of Israeli soldiers on the Israeli side of the border. Israel invaded Gaza after 6000 terror missiles. And, as far as angelic Iran is concerned, you're right; they don't attack Israel...directly. They prefer the sneaky approach, training and arming proxies (who also have murdered Americans, by the way) to do it for them. I doubt Israel has killed "thousands" of children, and saying so is typical Arab exaggeration. Yeah, children die in war, and war is horrible. But Israel doesn't target children and Israelis don't dance in the street and pass out candy when children are murdered (how many examples of this Palestinian shame would you like?). You say Israel is racist. Where do you think Iran's Bahais would rather live, Iran or Israel? The only "right" Palestinians lack is the right to murder Israelis. Every single restriction on their movement and economy flows from their pursuit of this "right." If the Palestinians stopped shooting themselves in the political/moral foot while trying to shoot Israelis, they would enjoy as good a life as Israeli Arabs, who enjoy more human rights than Arabs anywhere in the Middle East. The Iranian people have a Hitler wannabe as their leader, and a bunch of Hitler admirers as their mullahs, but the leaders will hide while their people die, if Iran continues to threaten Israel's existence. Since even one nuke could virtually destroy Israel, as certain Arab leaders have helpfully pointed out, Israel is justified in taking whatever steps are necessary to prevent even one nuke from being deployed against it. They can't afford to absorb one nuke and strike back afterwards. If the U.S. had discovered the 9-11 plot in advance, and had destroyed Al Queada camps to prevent the attack, would you have accused the U.S. of being racist child murderers? By the way, if Israel was hit by a nuke, do you think Palestinians would be horrified or happy? Also, if Israel was hit by a nuke, how many children would die (including Muslim children)? So, stop with the hyperbole and look at facts. Please. 2009-11-22T;22:02:00-05:00 What else does the tin horn god have to talk about? All the Nobel prizes won by Iranians? The advances in technology they have bestowed upon the world? Their evenhanded treatment of Bahais and homosexuals? The worst thing that could happen to almost every Arab government would be for Israel to disappear. Who could they blame then (I know, the Jews, but it wouldn't be as effective)? 2009-11-22T;22:02:00-05:00 Will, regarding Mercedes Benz, I would never buy one, but not just because of the Holocaust. You might be aware that there has been recent controversy over the company's exclusion of Israel on its map of the Middle East. The company falsely stated that Israel was omitted because Benz had no dealerships there. Their excuse was obviously false because they listed Iran and Iraq, despite no dealerships there. Their Arab servitude can be examined more closely on the Snopes.com website, URL http://snopes.com/inboxer/outrage/noisrael.asp. 2009-11-22T;22:02:00-05:00 They've got Mecca all to themselves; they should be happy with that. 2009-11-22T;22:02:00-05:00 Hey, Guest, Try walking around in Gaza wearing a yarmulke, and you'll get a taste of how much people don't care if you're Jewish. You'll be the one groaning and rolling on the ground, after one of them stabs you. 2009-11-22T;22:02:00-05:00 Hey, Peter, you're comparing a normal culture/society (Israel) to a psychotic, death-worshiping, Jew-hating society (Palestinians). How can peace ever be achieved when the Palestinian leaders teach their children to hate Jews? Are the adults suddenly going to tell their kids they can stop hating Jews now? The problem the Palestinians create for Israel is, Hamas and their thousands of followers view a two-state solution as a starting point for eventually taking over everything. They may recognize Israel, but they don't truly accept Israel. There's a big difference! Israel can't educate the Palestinian children not to hate them; that's their parents' and teachers' jobs. Until they stop feeding their children that crap, no true permanent peace will be possible. Didn't World War II occur in large part because of unresolved resentments left over from World War I? 2009-11-22T;22:02:00-05:00 Of course, if the Israelis demolished the mosque as a legitimate military target, the "Arab street" would be outraged. Am I the only one who believes that making explosives in a mosque (or any religious institution) defiles the mosque? 2009-11-22T;22:02:00-05:00 I've always thought that Egypt and even Syria were more natural allies of Israel than with Iran. Their problem is their obsession with the "Palestinians." If they could stop hating and resenting Israel for a moment, they'd realize Israel poses no threat to them unless they attack Israel, but Iran poses a threat to their very regimes. 2009-11-22T;22:02:00-05:00 Nasrallah is the poster boy for political assassination. 2009-11-22T;22:02:00-05:00 Hillel, please don't confuse security measures with apartheid. This isn't exactly separate water fountains. As far as blame, I place 99% of it on the Palestinians. They have a society which is so prone to violence, they couldn't run a normal country if Israel turned over everything to them. They would find a way to run it into the ground, even if they hadn't already done the same thing with Gaza. Look at the greenhouses Israel bequeathed to Gaza: looted and destroyed. Although Hamas doesn't control the West Bank, Fatah does a fine job of spreading anti-Israel hatred and distortion. So for this generation at least, a two-state solution really translates to one normal state, and one terrorist/welfare state. No thanks. If I were a sane Palestinian living in the West Bank or Gaza, the LAST thing I would want would be an independent Palestinian state, run by intolerant Muslim fanatics. 2009-11-22T;22:02:00-05:00 The real apartheid in the Middle East is the Muslim obsession with controlling every inch of land. When the head imam issues a fatwa that requires the death penalty for any Muslim selling or even renting land to a Jew, THAT'S apartheid! 2009-11-22T;22:02:00-05:00 In response to Eitan, yeah, they used to be Jordanian and Egyptian. How telling that neither country will EVER take them back. Israel should quietly tell Jordan and Egypt that the next time they criticize Israel's "occupation," Israel will publicly offer to return the West Bank to Jordan and Gaza to Egypt. I'd love to see those two countries stammer in refusal. In response to Neuroshock, I know my suggestion is not airtight. Nevertheless, anything that reduces the Arab overpopulation probably will do more good than harm. Say, do you think the international community would object if Israel passed a criminal law that all convicted terrorists must undergo mandatory vasectomies? I'm just kidding, but half the people reading this probably thought "hmm..." 2009-11-22T;22:02:00-05:00 Neuroshock makes a good point. However, the absence of alternative ideas doesn't make the bad idea of a two-state solution good. There are many reasons why a two-state solution won't work long term. The microcosm is Gaza; we all know the thanks Israel got for leaving. Even "moderate" Fatah doesn't look at the two-state solution as a final result; they view it as a starting point to eventually take over all of Israel. They don't necessarily say so in English, but they sure say it in Arabic (check out Palestinian Media Watch, for starters). They say they recognize Israel, but they don't accept Israel. Eitan is right when he points out that the Palestinians can't operate a normal country without an economy. He could have added that they can't operate a normal country without stopping the hate industry. You can't teach your children to hate Israelis and Jews in general, and suddenly tell them there's two states and they should forget about martyrdom. Israel certainly doesn't need another Somalia next door. As far as alternative solutions go, the best course might be for Israel to offer Palestinians seed money to settle in the 99.7% of the Middle East that is not Israel. If even 10% took them up on the offer, it would help. Of course, it would put the Arab countries in the position of exposing their hypocrisy wherein they claim to support the "Pawnestinians," but treat them like second class citizens (not citizens at all) in their own countries (when they refuse to absorb any Palestinians who accept the Israeli offer as "traitors"). Such a resettlement plan must be voluntary to be legal. Maybe there's enough Palestinians sick of being caught in the middle who would love to relocate. The drawback is, mostly sane Palestinians would leave, and a high concentration of fanatics would remain. 2009-11-22T;22:02:00-05:00 It just goes to show a leper doesn't change its spots (Yes, I know I typed "leper"). 2009-11-22T;22:02:00-05:00 I can't think of any other country receiving U.S. aid that has restrictions of this type. 2009-11-22T;22:02:00-05:00 Le Pen is mighty sordid. 2009-11-22T;22:02:00-05:00 Knowing the Simpsons writers, this would be a hilarious episode. 2009-11-22T;22:02:00-05:00 800 people killed? That comes out to 47 people per truck. The Muslim propaganda machine is working overtime. 2009-11-22T;22:02:00-05:00 What a vicious cartoon. I wonder if Oliphant would've drawn it if he lived in Sederot. 2009-11-22T;22:02:00-05:00 Tamar, I don't know why you keep promoting transfer. The world won't tolerate Israel forcing Arabs to leave, which leaves only the option of paying them to leave. It doesn't matter if the old Arabs stay; they'll eventually die off. Young Arabs, who stand to have 5-6 children, would be the appropriate target of such an effort. However, the Arab countries won't absorb Palestinians who leave voluntarily. They don't want them, and they would consider them traitors. In any event, I don't think enough Arabs would accept such an offer to make a difference. So your idea isn't practical. 2009-11-22T;22:02:00-05:00 "Blech" is my gut reaction to the thought of freeing 450 Hamas prisoners. It constitutes the most polite word choice I could muster. 2009-11-22T;22:02:00-05:00 Dear Miriam, Yeah, war is hell, always has been and always will be. That's why idiots like Hamas are no different than the idiots of governments throughout history who provoked a war against a superior military power. After Pearl Harbor, we bombed Tokyo, Hiroshima, Nagasaki; and those were just some Japanese cities. We didn't call them on phones to alert them we were coming, either. No smart bombs, just carpet bombs. By referring to Gaza as "occupied," you should have specified they are occupied by Hamas. And, by the way, if the Palestinians had an air force, exactly what do you think they would do to, say, Tel-Aviv? Considering the scope of the operation, the casualties were light. May be Palestinians someday learn that they can't elect and support a terrorist government that attacks Israel without getting a nosebleed. If Hamas ever conducts an investigation into war crimes committed by Hamas, the nature of the investigation will be to punish those who didn't commit enough war crimes. 2009-11-22T;22:02:00-05:00 But he thinks sanctions against Israel are adult? 2009-11-22T;22:02:00-05:00 Blech! 2009-11-22T;22:02:00-05:00 If the Palestinians want to whine about the Israeli elections, they should blame the terrorists they support. 2009-11-22T;22:02:00-05:00 Dr. Z, I am no fan of Muslims, their religion or their culture, but there are ways to express these opinions without sounding ignorant, or lowering yourself to the level of some skinhead screaming, "Kill the Kikes!" Besides, when you utilize such severe epitaphs, you weaken your argument. 2009-11-22T;22:02:00-05:00 A BIG part of the Middle East conflict is the Muslim refusal to accept Jewish hegemony over any "sacred Muslim land." It's like a bone stuck in their throats. Anyone who watches clips of Palestinian/Muslim/Arab propaganda knows that the theme goes beyond Israel bashing. They attack Jews. "Jews are the enemy; kill them anywhere you find them, blah, blah, blah!" How else to explain bombings of synagogues and desecration of Jewish graves, thousands of miles from Israel? When French thugs beat up Jewish pedestrians, they don't cry, "Take this, you Israeli!" Downplaying anti-Semitism is equivalent to hoping it'll go away. Thousands of years of history should have taught us it 'aint gonna happen. 2009-11-22T;22:02:00-05:00 Try to imagine a Muslim country using this law to punish a Muslim for insulting Judaism. Try very hard. 2009-11-22T;22:02:00-05:00 I think the Israeli government should announce a new policy: every time there is a terror attack, there will be automatic settlement expansion. 2009-11-22T;22:02:00-05:00 I agree with Arkady, but I would distinguish between SEC employees who were merely negligent (who minimally should be fired) and those who had a financial tie to Madoff (prison). 2009-11-22T;22:02:00-05:00 Israel should offer to stop building settlements when the Palestinians offer to stop having 6 babies per family. 2009-11-22T;22:02:00-05:00 He's an idiot, which explains which side he chose. 2009-11-22T;22:02:00-05:00 This just goes to show the idiots never learn. Can't say it's surprising, since polls consistently show that the majority of the Palestinian population think terrorism is okay (as long as it's not directed against them). 2009-11-22T;22:02:00-05:00 I wish the article had provided info whether the threat was from ordinary Swedes, or whiny Muslims living there. 2009-11-22T;22:02:00-05:00 Too bad Israel can't execute them, then release them. 2009-11-22T;22:02:00-05:00 That's a shame, because Mauritania is such an exciting, progressive country. Yawn. 2009-11-22T;22:02:00-05:00 You forgot to show him destroying a greenhouse. 2009-11-22T;22:02:00-05:00 The thing is, if Israel never existed, the area would be just another do-nothing, worthless piece of Arab garbage. 2009-11-22T;22:02:00-05:00 Instead of blaming Israel for defending itself, try blaming the Palestinians for pursuing terror. If the Israelis had the same lack of morality as Hamas, there would've been lots more than a few hundred Arab civilians killed. 2009-11-22T;22:02:00-05:00 Israel should offer to freeze its settlements if the Palestinians offer to reduce their six child per family birth rate. 2009-11-22T;22:02:00-05:00 By this standard, there's about 500,000,000 mentally ill Muslims wandering around. 2009-11-22T;22:02:00-05:00 Of course, the Arab world probably doesn't consider the Janjaweed militia in Darfur terrorists, even as they murder, rape and mutilate thousands. Arabs define "terrorist" as someone who kills Arabs. So who really cares what they think? 2009-11-22T;22:02:00-05:00 Hmm, the Arab Janjaweed militia murder and rape the people of Darfur and Gadhafi blames Israel. Al Queda murders thousands of Americans on 9-11 and the Arabs claim it was Mossad. Yasser Arafat dies and Israel is accused of poisoning him. In the Arab mindset, Israel is pretty active, for a country the size of New Jersey. 2009-11-22T;22:02:00-05:00 The fact that Hamas' rockets can't be aimed is precisely what makes them terrorist weapons. Hamas just aims towards a civilian area and hopes to "get lucky" and kill a bunch of women and children. Israel takes the opposite approach, even investigating questionable conduct by its soldiers. The only time Hamas might question the conduct of its terrorists might be if Hamas suspected them of not committing enough war crimes. 2009-11-22T;22:02:00-05:00 Wow, all these attacks against Jews...you'd think some Jews had published cartoons about Mohammed. Seriously, it would be interesting if one of the Jews being beaten had pulled out a gun and shot the attackers. Imagine the outrage that he/she dared defend himself! This would be a microcosm of the Israeli situation. 2009-11-22T;22:02:00-05:00 Further evidence that if Israel releases terrorists for Gilad Shalit, Israel will merely be inviting more Gilad Shalits to be kidnapped. 2009-11-22T;22:02:00-05:00 These students protesting for Gaza are just so trendy! Too bad they're not as concerned about Darfur, Myanmar, Tibet, etc. I guess a few hundred Gazan deaths are way more important than 400,000 killed in Sudan. 2009-11-22T;22:02:00-05:00 Maybe the protesters are miffed because there's no science exhibit by the Palestinians. Perhaps if there was a booth titled, "The science of terrorism." 2009-11-22T;22:02:00-05:00 Trading murderers for Shalit will only encourage more kidnappings every time the Palestinians or Hezbollah want to get back some of their terrorists. This has been going on for decades. Remember all the innocent people (including Americans) who were kidnapped in Lebanon, back in the '80s? It doesn't make sense to get back Shalit by releasing people who will kill 100 Shalits. However, given Hamas' demands, at least they are admitting what I already knew: that one Israeli is worth 1000 Palestinian terrorists. Probably more. 2009-11-22T;22:02:00-05:00 It is most telling that Jordan wants nothing to do with the whiny, terrorist-minded Palestinians. The Hashemite Jordanians aren't blind. They see what goes on in Gaza and how the Palestinians have turned southern Lebanon into a ideological garbage heap. Of course, Egypt wants as little to do with Gaza as it can. With all the Arab chest pounding over the Pawnestinian (sic) issue, the Arab countries have done little to absorb these "refugees." 2009-11-22T;22:02:00-05:00 Typical Muslim hyperbole. I suspect the reason he might really believe his b.s. is that he doesn't care about dead Jews, only dead Muslims. Therefore, in his mind, a thousand dead Muslims in Gaza is much worse than 6 million dead Jews in Europe. I also wonder if he would ever make such statements of outrage when Muslims kill other Muslims (much more numerous victims than anything Israel ever did), or if he's just offended at those uppity Jews defending themselves. Lastly, someone should remind him that the Jews didn't provoke the Nazis by rocketing Berlin. 2009-11-22T;22:02:00-05:00 What a terrible, terrible tragedy. I feel so awful for this poor man. 2009-11-22T;22:02:00-05:00 Ironic that Nasrallah would describe Israel as living in fear, from his hiding place. 2009-11-22T;22:02:00-05:00 Miriam is right about one thing: war is hell. That is why government leaders should not provoke a war against a militarily superior opponent, especially when the provoking power's people have nowhere to hide. Gaza is densely populated (however, despite hysterical hyperbole, it is not "the most densely populated area on earth"), and Hamas compounded the problem by turning the entire area into a terrorist rats nest. Funny thing: Jews don't run around attacking Muslims and vandalizing Muslim institutions, when Israel is attacked. Blaming the anti-Semitic violence on Israeli policies is to give a pass to ignorant, violent jerks. As far as Miriam's allusion to war crimes, if Israel committed war crimes, then every country which has ever fought a war after being attacked was also guilty of war crimes, including the U.S., for bombing AXIS cities during WWII and England, for bombing German cities after being pounded by the Lufftwafte and by V1 and V2 rockets. Israel and Jews should not rejoice in civilian casualties (we weren't the ones dancing in the streets on 9-11 or during SCUD attacks on Israel during the first Persian Gulf War), but we needn't apologize for them either, under the totality of circumstances. 2009-11-22T;22:02:00-05:00 I always wonder how these terrorists rationalize "revenge" for Israel killing a terrorist who was responsible for Israeli deaths. What do they expect Israel to do, send the guy flowers? In any event, Hezbollah's urge to kill precludes them having actual evidence that Israel was behind the death of poor little Imad. 2009-11-22T;22:02:00-05:00 Where were they when Muslim terrorists murdered 186 school children in Beslan, Russia? Maybe it wasn't trendy enough to protest that. 2009-11-22T;22:02:00-05:00 Of course, Hamas is prosecuting some of its fighters for not committing enough war crimes. 2009-11-22T;22:02:00-05:00 Of course, Israelis didn't dance in the street on 9-11. 2009-11-22T;22:02:00-05:00 What is more galling than Hamas claiming a "great victory?" The idiots who believe them. Every policy of Hamas has brought grief and economic ruin to Gaza. Hamas allows few personal freedoms, and, by provoking a more powerful military power, brought destruction to their little terrorist fiefdom. So they define their "victory" as surviving the disaster they caused. What a bunch of jerks! 2009-11-22T;22:02:00-05:00 Interesting how ever time I read about a Jewish demonstration or a pro-Israel demonstration, it's law-abiding and peaceful. Conversely, many anti-Israel activities are anti-Semitic, violent and ignorant. The correlation is very telling. 2009-11-22T;22:02:00-05:00 Big surprise. 2009-11-22T;22:02:00-05:00 Mayor Bloomberg got it right. The whole concept of "disproportionate response" is ridiculous. A "proportionate" response would consist of Israel launching hundreds or thousands of projectiles indiscriminately into Gaza population centers, hoping to get "lucky" and kill lots of innocent people. Since that's obviously not a moral option, Israel is doing the best it can. Considering the firepower that Israel has unleashed in Gaza, the relatively small number of civilian deaths demonstrates that Israel is trying to avoid collateral damage. Imagine the thousands of Gazan civilians who would be dead by now if Israel attacked with the same immorality that drives the terrorists. I suspect the Palestinian spin doctors coined the "disproportionate" application, in much the same way they invented "collective punishment" to describe fighting back against terror (terror being the ultimate form of collective punishment, when you think about it), or hailing terrorists as "martyrs" and "freedom fighters." In the same vein, the Palestinians are trying to hijack powerful words like "genocide," "Holocaust," and "Nazis," to twist them to their own purposes. It would seem like quite a task, trying to make the terrorists the good guys, and the victims the bad guys, but much of the world seems to buy it. 2009-11-22T;22:02:00-05:00 Every person who calls Israel's response "disproportionate" should be asked if they would be okay with a "proportionate" response such as, for every projectile Hamas fires, Israel fires one back, aimed at Gaza population centers. The thing is, the world seems to expect more of Israel than it does of Hamas, or the Palestinians, or the other countries in the world, for that matter. 2009-11-22T;22:02:00-05:00 Carole, they hate Israel anyway. 2009-11-22T;22:02:00-05:00