Survivors say Mormons reneging on 1995 baptism pledge http://jta.org/ENTRY_PERMALINK_HERE/survivors-say-mormons-reneging-on-pledge/ A Holocaust survivor organization has broken off negotiations with the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints over its practice of posthumously baptizing Jewish victims of the Nazis. en-us bharris@jta.org Copyright 2008 2008-11-12T;19:27:00-05:00 Comment by john r poq_88@hotmail.com @Jerry Scheinberg, From my humble perspective, the complete REGARD for the wishes of Jews is quite impressive. That one religion is listening to another and adjusting their practices, to whatever degree, to accommodate their religion and peoples’ requests is almost unparalleled in today’s world. If the Mormon church was as disrespectful as you claim they wouldn’t have even bothered listening, considering and taking action on concerns held by another religion. That is rare, and goes to show the respect the church has towards the victims and survivors of the holocaust, their descendants and the Jewish people in general. Mr. Michel’s notion that someday in the future the victims will be listed as Mormons is preposterous. Accusing Mormons of being holocaust deniers or facilitators of such ignorant people is far more hurtful than anything your friends the Mormons are doing which happens to be a selfless labor of love and compassion, whether you agree with it or not. I’ve known and spoken to Mormons who we’re soldiers in WW2 who were part the liberation forces that freed many Jews from the concentration camps. Their testimony and description of the atrocities committed in those camps against the Jewish people by Hitler and the Nazis will burn in my memory for as long as I live and will not be permitted to be denied in my presence nor that those who suffered there were not Jews and persecuted for that reason. Mormons are friends and allies to the Jews. Mormon theology is singular among the Christian community. Whereas many Christian denominations may discount, criticize or in some cases shamefully vilify the Jews. Mormons on the other hand know better and are grateful for the contribution and legacy of faith the Jews have given the world. We maintain that the Jews and those of the House of Israel ARE the people of G-d and have part in the blessings promised to Abraham. Gratitude and respect toward the Jews is taught in Mormon churches and is even part Mormon Holy Writ.: <ahref ="http://scriptures.lds.org/2_ne/29">2nd Nephi 29</a> 4 But thus saith the Lord God: O fools, they shall have a Bible; and it shall proceed forth from the Jews, mine ancient covenant people. And what thank they the Jews for the Bible which they receive from them? Yea, what do the Gentiles mean? Do they remember the travails, and the labors, and the pains of the Jews, and their diligence unto me, in bringing forth salvation unto the Gentiles? 5 O ye Gentiles, have ye remembered the Jews, mine ancient covenant people? Nay; but ye have accursed them, and have hated them, and have not sought to recover them. But behold, I will return all these things upon your own heads; for I the Lord have not forgotten my people. 6 Thou fool, that shall say: A Bible, we have got a Bible, and we need no more Bible. Have ye obtained a Bible save it were by the Jews? ------ This was written in response to those who would discount the Jews. Mormons do not, and I post this here humbly to illustrate a point that Mormons are your friends and have been very gracious in considering Jewish concerns about the practice of Baptism for the Dead and have gone so far as altering the practice to accommodate them. Mormons are in no way obligated to, but have out of respect. So whether you agree or not with Mormon practices, remember they are your friends and have shown much respect. Is it too much to expect the same? one last point to consider. There are Mormon descendants of the Holocaust who have just as much right as their Jewish brothers and sisters to be concerned for the eternal welfare of their ancestors, their wishes should not be overlooked either. I find that Mr. Michel’s organization Unilaterally ending discussion with the church out of frustration on this sensitive issue is not helpful to either party and only fuels the fires of misunderstanding intolerance and disrespect. Solutions can be found, and respectfully. I apologize for the long post but this is an issue I feel requires a more thoughtful response. @Jerry Scheinberg,

From my humble perspective, the complete REGARD for the wishes of Jews is quite impressive. That one religion is listening to another and adjusting their practices, to whatever degree, to accommodate their religion and peoples’ requests is almost unparalleled in today’s world.

If the Mormon church was as disrespectful as you claim they wouldn’t have even bothered listening, considering and taking action on concerns held by another religion. That is rare, and goes to show the respect the church has towards the victims and survivors of the holocaust, their descendants and the Jewish people in general.

Mr. Michel’s notion that someday in the future the victims will be listed as Mormons is preposterous. Accusing Mormons of being holocaust deniers or facilitators of such ignorant people is far more hurtful than anything your friends the Mormons are doing which happens to be a selfless labor of love and compassion, whether you agree with it or not.

I’ve known and spoken to Mormons who we’re soldiers in WW2 who were part the liberation forces that freed many Jews from the concentration camps. Their testimony and description of the atrocities committed in those camps against the Jewish people by Hitler and the Nazis will burn in my memory for as long as I live and will not be permitted to be denied in my presence nor that those who suffered there were not Jews and persecuted for that reason.

Mormons are friends and allies to the Jews. Mormon theology is singular among the Christian community. Whereas many Christian denominations may discount, criticize or in some cases shamefully vilify the Jews. Mormons on the other hand know better and are grateful for the contribution and legacy of faith the Jews have given the world. We maintain that the Jews and those of the House of Israel ARE the people of G-d and have part in the blessings promised to Abraham.

Gratitude and respect toward the Jews is taught in Mormon churches and is even part Mormon Holy Writ.:

<ahref ="http://scriptures.lds.org/2_ne/29">2nd Nephi 29</a>

4 But thus saith the Lord God: O fools, they shall have a Bible; and it shall proceed forth from the Jews, mine ancient covenant people. And what thank they the Jews for the Bible which they receive from them? Yea, what do the Gentiles mean? Do they remember the travails, and the labors, and the pains of the Jews, and their diligence unto me, in bringing forth salvation unto the Gentiles?
5 O ye Gentiles, have ye remembered the Jews, mine ancient covenant people? Nay; but ye have accursed them, and have hated them, and have not sought to recover them. But behold, I will return all these things upon your own heads; for I the Lord have not forgotten my people.
6 Thou fool, that shall say: A Bible, we have got a Bible, and we need no more Bible. Have ye obtained a Bible save it were by the Jews?

------
This was written in response to those who would discount the Jews. Mormons do not, and I post this here humbly to illustrate a point that Mormons are your friends and have been very gracious in considering Jewish concerns about the practice of Baptism for the Dead and have gone so far as altering the practice to accommodate them. Mormons are in no way obligated to, but have out of respect. So whether you agree or not with Mormon practices, remember they are your friends and have shown much respect. Is it too much to expect the same?

one last point to consider. There are Mormon descendants of the Holocaust who have just as much right as their Jewish brothers and sisters to be concerned for the eternal welfare of their ancestors, their wishes should not be overlooked either. I find that Mr. Michel’s organization Unilaterally ending discussion with the church out of frustration on this sensitive issue is not helpful to either party and only fuels the fires of misunderstanding intolerance and disrespect.

Solutions can be found, and respectfully.

I apologize for the long post but this is an issue I feel requires a more thoughtful response.

]]> 2009-11-08T;20:17:00-05:00 Comment by Jerry Scheinberg jscs@wavecable.com The Mormon Church’s complete disregard for the wishes of Jews, no matter how polite their attitude, shows a disgusting lack of respect for Judaism.&nbsp; This is ironic from a religion that quickly gets up in arms when other Christians call them a cult and disown them as Christians.&nbsp; To call this a selfless act is to call murder a selfless act because the world is over populated. The Mormon Church’s complete disregard for the wishes of Jews, no matter how polite their attitude, shows a disgusting lack of respect for Judaism.  This is ironic from a religion that quickly gets up in arms when other Christians call them a cult and disown them as Christians.  To call this a selfless act is to call murder a selfless act because the world is over populated.

]]> 2009-11-08T;20:17:00-05:00 Comment by JEROME GINSBURG jzg1@optonline.net THE MORMANS BELIEVE IF YOU HAVE NOT BEEN BAPTISED YOU CANNOT GET INTO HEAVEN.&nbsp; THEY BAPTISE THE DEAD SO THEY CAN GET INTO HEAVEN.&nbsp; VOLUNTEERS DO THIS 24 HOURS A DAY SO THAT PEOPLE WHO DIED WHO NEVER HAD THE OPPORTUNITY TO BE BAPTISED ARE NOT DENIED HEAVEN.&nbsp; THEY GAIN NOTHING FROM THIS PRACTICE FOR THIE CHURCH AND THEY DO NOT SOLICIT CONTRIBUTIONS TO DO THIS.&nbsp; THIS IS DONE AS A GGOD DEED TO SAVE SOULS. IF YOU DO NOT BELIEVE IN THEIR PRACTICE IT DOES NOT CHANGE THE DEAD FROM WHAT THEY WERE TO A MORMAN.&nbsp; I PERSONALLY THINK IT IS REMARKABLE ACT OF SELFLESSNESS EVEN THOUGH I DO NOT ACCEPT THEIR BELIEFS. THEY HAVE BAPTISED MILLIONNS OF DEAD PEOPLE WHO THEY DID NOT AND NEVER WILL KNOW. THE MORMANS BELIEVE IF YOU HAVE NOT BEEN BAPTISED YOU CANNOT GET INTO HEAVEN.  THEY BAPTISE THE DEAD SO THEY CAN GET INTO HEAVEN.  VOLUNTEERS DO THIS 24 HOURS A DAY SO THAT PEOPLE WHO DIED WHO NEVER HAD THE OPPORTUNITY TO BE BAPTISED ARE NOT DENIED HEAVEN.  THEY GAIN NOTHING FROM THIS PRACTICE FOR THIE CHURCH AND THEY DO NOT SOLICIT CONTRIBUTIONS TO DO THIS.  THIS IS DONE AS A GGOD DEED TO SAVE SOULS.
IF YOU DO NOT BELIEVE IN THEIR PRACTICE IT DOES NOT CHANGE THE DEAD FROM WHAT THEY WERE TO A MORMAN.  I PERSONALLY THINK IT IS REMARKABLE ACT OF SELFLESSNESS EVEN THOUGH I DO NOT ACCEPT THEIR BELIEFS. THEY HAVE BAPTISED MILLIONNS OF DEAD PEOPLE WHO THEY DID NOT AND NEVER WILL KNOW.

]]> 2009-11-08T;20:17:00-05:00